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Confusion over gurunmez x gorulmez
1.       Mishiak
1 posts
 01 Nov 2014 Sat 11:10 am

Hello everyone,

 

I have come across this problem recently and nobody of my Turkish friends could offer me a satisfying explanation.

 

I want to create a word "invisible". In case of "unbelievable", it is very easy and the process goes like this:

 

Inan + il + maz = inanilmaz.

 

I wanted to proceed in the same way with gormek, however, I was not successful.

 

Gor + ul + mez = not correct      x     Gor + un + mez = invisible (correct)

 

Why cant I follow the rule stem + passive + negative aorist tense? If it actually is a rule, I am not quiet sure now O

 

Thank you very much!

2.       deli
5904 posts
 01 Nov 2014 Sat 12:21 pm

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/passivemood.htm

3.       tunci
7149 posts
 01 Nov 2014 Sat 02:19 pm

 

Quoting Mishiak

Hello everyone,

 

I have come across this problem recently and nobody of my Turkish friends could offer me a satisfying explanation.

 

I want to create a word "invisible". In case of "unbelievable", it is very easy and the process goes like this:

 

Inan + il + maz = inanilmaz.

 

I wanted to proceed in the same way with gormek, however, I was not successful.

 

Gor + ul + mez = not correct      x     Gor + un + mez = invisible (correct)

 

Why cant I follow the rule stem + passive + negative aorist tense? If it actually is a rule, I am not quiet sure now O

 

Thank you very much!

 

Inan + il + maz = inanilmaz   is actually a double voiced verb.

Voice 1 --> Passive voice which makes it a passive voiced verb using the suffix -ıl ----> to be believed

Voice 2 --> Verbal adjective voice which alters it an adjective using the negative suffix -mez  ---> unbeliveable

 

So, the verb changes into an adjective meaning by taking two suffixes. [-il, -mez]

Note: you can not apply same method to all verbs 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you want to apply the same way to another verb which is -gör in your example it makes it first passive second adjective.

görülmez  ---> [something] that can not be seen 

Gözle görülmez şeyler ---> Things that can not be seen by eye.

However, in the other word, it is more like reflexive.

In reflexive the agent performs and action which is directed to the agent. In other other words it is same person who performs an action and affected by that action.

So, görünmek = to appear

     görünmez ---> does not appear which means, invisible.

     Example : görünmez adam ---> A man who does not appear [ invisible man ]

     Here, a man who performs an action of appearing and he also being affected by that action is same person whereas :

    Gemi buradan görülmez ---> The boat can not be seen from here.

    Here , the person who performs an action of seeing is a different person from the thing [boat] which is not being able to seen.




    


 



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