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Gereklilik Kullanımları ...necessity usage
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| 10. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 12:43 pm |
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gitmek zorundayım: I have to go
The obligatory is the activity: "to go"
gitmemek zorundayım: I must not go
The obligatory is the activity: "not to go" (="to stay")
gitmek zorunda değilim: I don't have to go
There is no obligatory: "I may go or I may not go"
so:
toplamak zorunda değilim: no obligatory.
toplamamak zorundayım: obligatory is "not to do"
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| 11. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 03:31 pm |
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what is değilim then ?
Why did they use it here ?
Misafirler akşam gelecek,evi sabahtan toplamak zorunda değilim
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| 12. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 03:51 pm |
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What's the difference between "gerek", "gerekir" and gerekiyor" as the one can be used instead of an other?
Bu konuyu Ahmet Bey'le konuşmanız gerek.
Bu konuyu Ahmet Bey'le konuşmanız gerekir.
Bu konuyu Ahmet Bey'le konuşmanız gerekiyor.
Any difference between three?
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| 13. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 04:24 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Ok,and when i want to put it into nagative,
İ mean,to say,i shouldn't or Must not..ect
İt is eylem,so we should use the (me,ma) suffix as usual, right ?
But i found this örnek,
Misafirler akşam gelecek,evi sabahtan toplamak zorunda değilim
Why said 'değilim' here,and not toplaMAmak ?
And this goes for all the other cases too ? |
You seem to be confused. Let's make it clear.
You know "to be" in Turkish is a bit different than other verbs. You need to get it right first.
This site has a lesson on it:
http://www.turkishclass.com/grammar_toBe.htm
I will add some more below. First you need to know how to express the person. And it is done by adding the following suffixes:
-(y)im -- I am
-sin -- you are
-. or -dir/-tir -- he/she/it is
-(y)iz -- we are
-siniz -- you are
-ler -- they are
Examples:
iyi-yim -- I am fine
iyi-sin -- You are fine
iyi-. or iyi-dir -- He/She/It is fine
iyi-yiz -- We are fine
iyi-siniz -- You are fine
iyi-ler -- They are fine
Negative is done using "değil" (not) and these suffixes are attached to "değil".
iyi değil-im -- I am not fine
iyi değil-sin -- You are not fine
iyi değil-. or iyi değil-dir -- He/She/It is not fine
iyi değil-iz -- We are not fine
iyi değil-siniz -- You are not fine
iyi değil-ler -- They are not fine
Then you need to know how it is used with idi, imiş and ise.
Let's try to see it this way. I will use (person) for personal endings to show it in a short notation.
iyi-(person) (affirmative)
iyi değil-(person) (negative)
iyi mi-(person) (affirmative question)
iyi değil mi-(person) (negative question)
where (person) = (-(y)im/-sin/-. or -dir/-(y)iz/-siniz/-ler)
OK. I have already shown above how this short notation works for affirmative and negative cases. You should figure it out for the rest.
idi:
iyi idi-(person) (affirmative)
iyi değil idi-(person) (negative)
iyi mi idi-(person) (affirmative question)
iyi değil mi idi-(person) (negative question)
where (person) = (-m/-n/-./-k/-niz/-ler)
Ex: negative question for 1st pl person. The suffix is -k, right? So if we put it instead of (person)
iyi değil mi idi-k? -- Weren't we fine?
ise:
iyi ise-(person) -- If (person) fine (affirmative)
iyi değil ise-(person) If (person) not fine (negative)
where (person) = (-m/-n/-./-k/-niz/-ler) for Turkish or
(I am/you are/he is or she is or it is/ we are/you are/they are) for English
Ex: negative for 2nd pl. person. The suffix is -niz, right? So if we put it instead of (person)
iyi değil ise-niz? -- If you are not fine
imiş:
iyi imiş-(person) (affirmative)
iyi değil imiş-(person) (negative)
iyi mi imiş-(person) (affirmative question)
iyi değil mi imiş-(person) (negative question)
where (person) = (-im/-sin/-./-iz/-siniz/-ler)
idi + ise combo:
iyi idi-(person) ise or iyi idi ise-(person) (affirmative)
iyi değil idi-(person) ise or iyi değil idi ise-(person) (negative)
where (person) = (-m/-n/-./-k/-niz/-ler)
Ex: negative for 1st sing. person. The suffix is -m, right? So if we put it instead of (person)
iyi değil idi-m ise -- If I was not fine
or
iyi değil idi ise-m -- If I was not fine
As you can see personal endings may come after idi or ise with the same meaning.
imiş + ise combo:
iyi imiş-(person) ise or iyi imiş ise-(person) (affirmative)
iyi değil imiş-(person) ise or iyi değil imiş ise-(person) (negative)
where (person) = (-m/-n/-./-k/-niz/-ler) if after ise or
(person) = (-im/-sin/-./-iz/-siniz/-ler) if after imiş
Ex: negative for 2nd sing. person. The suffix is -sin if we put it after imiş, right? So if we put it instead of (person)
iyi değil imiş-sin ise -- If you are supposedly not fine
or
the suffix is -n after ise, so
iyi değil imiş ise-n -- If you are supposedly not fine
As you can see personal endings may come after imiş or ise with the same meaning.
OK. That was the special forms of "to be". For all other cases we use olmak similar to other verbs.
For example future tense of to be:
iyi ol-acağ-ım -- I will be fine
iyi ol-acak-sın -- You will be fine
iyi ol-acak -- He/She/It will be fine
iyi ol-acağ-ız -- We will be fine
iyi ol-acak-sınız -- You will be fine
iyi ol-acak-lar -- They will be fine
Infinitive:
iyi ol-mak istiyorum -- I want to be fine
iyi ol-mak istiyorsun -- You want to be fine
iyi ol-mak istiyor -- He/She/t wants to be fine
iyi ol-mak istiyoruz -- We want to be fine
iyi ol-mak istiyorsunuz -- You want to be fine
iyi ol-mak istiyorlar -- They want to be fine
And finally let me answer your question.
-mak zorunda olmak -- to have to ...
As you can see we have an "olmak" in this form. I have given the forms of it above. So let's work it out. I will do it for the first sing. person only. You should figure out the rest.
gitmek zorunda olmak -- to have to go
gitmek zorunda-yım -- I have to go
gitmek zorunda değil-im -- I don't have to go
gitmek zorunda mı-yım? -- Do I have to go?
gitmek zorunda değil mi-yim? Don't I have to go?
gitmek zorunda idi-m -- I had to go
gitmek zorunda değil idi-m -- I didn't have to go
gitmek zorunda mı idi-m? -- Did I have to go?
gitmek zorunda değil mi idi-m? -- Didn't I have to go?
gitmek zorunda ise-m -- If I have to go
gitmek zorunda değil ise-m -- If I don't have to go
gitmek zorunda imiş-im -- I supposedly have to go
gitmek zorunda değil imiş-im -- I supposedly don't have to go
gitmek zorunda mı imiş-im? -- Do I supposedly have to go?
gitmek zorunda değil mi imiş-im? -- Don't I supposedly have to go?
gitmek zorunda idi ise-m or
gitmek zorunda idi-m ise -- If I had to go
gitmek zorunda değil idi ise-m or
gitmek zorunda değil idi-m ise -- If I had not to go
gitmek zorunda imiş ise-m or
gitmek zorunda imiş-im ise -- If I supposedly have to go
gitmek zorunda değil imiş ise-m or
gitmek zorunda değil imiş-im ise -- If I supposedly don't have to go
gitmek zorunda ol-acağ-ım -- I will have to go
gitmek zorunda ol-ma-yacağ-ım -- I will not have to go
(Notice how it is done negative here?)
And what happens if you make gitmek negative above?
git-me-mek zorunda olmak -- to have to not go (What you have to do is not to go)
gitmemek zorundayım -- I have to not go (Is this correct in English? What's meant here is "What I have to do is not to go")
gitmemek zorunda değil-im -- I don't have to not go (What I don't have to is not to go)
etc.
I know, I know. It's been a long answer and maybe you are more confused now. (Are you?) Take your time, pay attention to the short notations I have provided above and memorize them (They are like math equations, you need to know the personal endings very well.)
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| 14. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 04:26 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: what is değilim then ?
Why did they use it here ?
Misafirler akşam gelecek,evi sabahtan toplamak zorunda değilim |
Is it hard to understand the difference between the obligatory "not to do" and no obligatory  , or you ask just the meaning of "değil"?
Ben değilim: I am not
Sen değilsin: you are not
o değil: he is not
gitmek zorunda: he has to go
gitmek zorunda değil: he doesnt have to go << no obligatory
gitmemek zorunda: he musnt go (he must stay) << still there is an obligatory
öğretmenim: i am a teacher
öğretmen değilim: i am not a teacher
değil says us that there is no obligatory.
but if you use "-me" after verb, it says us that there is an obligatory "not to do that"
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| 16. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 04:54 pm |
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gitmek zorundayım: I have to go
The obligatory is the activity: "to go"
gitmemek zorundayım: I must not go
The obligatory is the activity: "not to go" (="to stay")
gitmek zorunda değilim: I don't have to go
There is no obligatory: "I may go or I may not go"
so:
toplamak zorunda değilim: no obligatory.
toplamamak zorundayım: obligatory is "not to do"
gitmak zorundayım=I have to go
gitmek zorunda değil=I dont have to go
gitmeliyim=I must go
gitmemeliyim=I must not go
Note=must and have to dont have the same degree
must and have to dont have the same meaning
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| 17. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 04:57 pm |
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Quoting aslan2:
I know, I know. It's been a long answer and maybe you are more confused now. (Are you?) Take your time, pay attention to the short notations I have provided above and memorize them (They are like math equations, you need to know the personal endings very well.)
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Thank You very much,
İ'm not really confused,i know olmak usage,but i didn't thought about it that way
And yes,so true you got a point,we cann't say 'i have NOT to go ' not a good sentence
But,what is having time from me that combo thing
imiş + ise combo:
idi + ise combo:
İ didn't know we can put olmak in that way too
Anyway, the combo matter is confusing me a little bit
btw, Nisreen hun,that is not the translation Forum !
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| 18. |
14 Sep 2006 Thu 05:12 pm |
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Yes,i know they are not same degree,but note here
There are more than one form with the same meaning,so what is the difference in usage between them ?
Quoting erdinc: These formuluzations need some examples:
1. gitmem gerek / gitmem gerekiyor : I need to go
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2. gitmek gerek / gitmek gerekiyor : it is necessary to go
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3. gitmek zorundayım : I must go
4. gitmek mecburiyetindeyim : I must go
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5. gitmek zorunda kaldım : I had no other choice than going
6. gitmeye mecburum : I must go |
Mecbure used when i am forced by someone or something to do something ?
İ mean not with my own choice ?
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| 19. |
15 Sep 2006 Fri 09:31 am |
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Quoting CANLI:
But,what is having time from me that combo thing
imiş + ise combo:
idi + ise combo:
İ didn't know we can put olmak in that way too
Anyway, the combo matter is confusing me a little bit
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ise = if
My point is that you can use personal endings after idi/imiş or ise without any change in the meaning.
The same can be said for the past tense of other verbs.
git-ti ise-n or
git-ti-n ise
but
git-miş ise-n (Mostly used)
git-miş-sin ise (Not preferred)
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| 20. |
15 Sep 2006 Fri 09:36 am |
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Quoting CANLI:
Mecbure used when i am forced by someone or something to do something ?
İ mean not with my own choice ? |
mecbur or zorunda means "forced by something/someone". So they mean you are forced by someone/something to do something" not with your own choice.
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can someone help me T-E