Language |
|
|
|
|
|
Yapmak or Etmek??? please!!
|
| 10. |
18 Aug 2006 Fri 01:58 am |
|
Could be "eylemek" one of auxiliary verbs? Or it is replaced with "etmek"?
|
|
| 11. |
18 Aug 2006 Fri 02:12 am |
|
eylemek is almost omited from the language. "viran eylemek" is still somewhat active but most Turks wouln't understand it.
I try to avoid words that the men on street would not understand. TDK as the official source must list them all in their dictionaries.
If you pick any modern dictionary 20% of words are going to be old fashioned words not used anymore. It is a good idea not to learn Turkish from old fashioned people of from their works. There is no other language changing fastre than Turkish. Some words are omited from the language before some professionals become retired. In other words there are old people who are using the words they used to use when they were younger but these word are already omited. In any other European language this process would take a few times longer than a persons lifetime.
|
|
| 12. |
18 Aug 2006 Fri 09:51 am |
|
Quoting Dilara: Thanks a lot for your replies Erdic, your help is highly appreciated!!
I wasn't aware of "Auxiliary Verbs" or helping verbs at all...in fact, this is the first time I heard about them and I suppose this happened to many people on the site who asked for more examples.
It isn't easy to understand for me but I am sure I'll "process" the information you gave us little by little and with a lot of practice.
I also have problems with the accelerative and mutual action verbs...I think these are interesting topics to talk about as well.
Greetings to everybody from latin america:
Dilara.
 |
Don't be confused. They are not different from other verbs in tense tables. Turkish is a very logical language, if you grab that logic, you can easily advance in a very short time. All the verbs are regular. And verbs take time and personal endings. When you learn that endings (think of them together not as time and person) all you need to do is to add them to the Verb stem (taking the vocal harmony of course). It is like putting some lego pieces together. So easy that Turkish children are the fastest language learners (not my words but findings from scientific tests)
As an example let's take a look at the past tense in Turkish:
The following are the past tense + personal suffixes
1st sg: -dim (and others according to vocal harmony)
2nd sg: -din
3rd sg: -di
1rd pl: -dik
2nd pl: -diniz
3rd pl: -diler
Now when you have this knowledge, all you need to do is take a verb and add one of the following to it accordingly. That's it, nice and easy. Piece of cake.
Ex:
Gel-mek -- to come
Gel-dim -- I came
Gel-din -- You came
Gel-di -- He/She/It came
Gel-dik -- We came
Gel-diniz -- You came
Gel-diler -- They came
And when you take the verb part here, it can be anything. And this is nice part part indeed. It can be a passive verb, negative verb, cooperative verb, reflexive verb or causative verb, etc. And here what you need to know is how you can turn a verb into a passive verb or into negative verb or whatever. Yes that is done by adding some suffixes to the verb stem.
Ex:
Sev-mek -- To love
Sev-me-mek -- To not love (negative voice)
Sev-il-mek -- To be loved (Passive voice)
Sev-iş-mek -- To love one another (cooperative voice)
Sev-dir-mek -- To make something love something else (factitive or causative)
Sev-ebil-mek -- To be able to love
Sev-eme-mek -- To not be able to love
etc.
So on the Verb part, you need to know the suffixes to turn a verb into another verb of any sort.
And on the tense part, you need to know which suffixes to add to a verb stem.
More Ex:
Kes-mek -- To cut
Kes-tim -- I cut it. (V+dim)
Kesil-di -- It was cut (V+di)
Kesilme-di -- It was not cut (V+di)
Keseme-dim -- I was not able to cut it (V+dim)
Well I hope see my point here, they are all verb plus some time and personal ending. That's the way to see it in a simple way. After that, you need to get used to how a verb is turned into another verb by using some suffixes.
|
|
| 13. |
19 Aug 2006 Sat 12:07 am |
|
aslan2 :
Thank you for your message. I understood what your point was clearly!!, As you said , turkish is like putting lego pieces together , it's a very logical language that's true but I didn't know turkish clildren where the ones who learnt their language faster! very very interesting information!
As for the mutual action verbs, it's all about learning the suffix and adding it to the stem/ verb itself, of course there are harder things such as :
When should I use the -dik OBJECT participle and when should I prefer the SIMPLE PRESENT participle for instance:
" akAR " or "akAN " because they mean actually the same!! "which flows / which is flowing etc"...I don't see any difference...?
If someone could explain this to me, I'd be more than grateful and once again, thank you all of you!
selamlar,
Dilara
|
|
| 14. |
19 Aug 2006 Sat 09:21 am |
|
Quoting Dilara: aslan2 :
Thank you for your message. I understood what your point was clearly!!, As you said , turkish is like putting lego pieces together , it's a very logical language that's true but I didn't know turkish clildren where the ones who learnt their language faster! very very interesting information!
As for the mutual action verbs, it's all about learning the suffix and adding it to the stem/ verb itself, of course there are harder things such as :
When should I use the -dik OBJECT participle and when should I prefer the SIMPLE PRESENT participle for instance:
" akAR " or "akAN " because they mean actually the same!! "which flows / which is flowing etc"...I don't see any difference...?
If someone could explain this to me, I'd be more than grateful and once again, thank you all of you!
selamlar,
Dilara |
As for Turkish children, it is quite natural to learn a language like Turkish. For more, make a Google search using "Language learnability" and you should find many links on the subject.
Let me help you with your question.
-dik suffix usually is used with personal possessive suffixes. You should know them but they are
-(i)m -- my
-(i)n -- your
-(s)i -- his/her/its
-(i)miz -- our
-(i)niz -- your
-leri -- their
So -dik+POSS
-diğ-im
-diğ-in
-diğ-i
-diğ-imiz
-diğ-iniz
-dik-leri
So far so good. I don't want to use grammatical terms here. Usually it is used to turn the object of a simple sentence into another noun in a complex sentence. Some examples:
Bir kitap okudum. -- I read a book.
V=oku-mak
Object=Bir kitap
Here the verb is oku-mak (to read). Now add -dik+POSS to the verb
oku-duğum (not -diğim but -duğum, vocal harmony you know)
Now the object (a book) should be modified by "okuduğum" and since in Turkish modifier always comes before the modified we have this
okuduğum bir kitap -- A book which I read
So here "okuduğum" modifes "bir kitap" just like in
kalın bir kitap -- a THICK book
kırmızı bir kitap -- a RED book
okuduğum bir kitap -- a book which I read
Notice the difference, in English the order is different for the 3rd one. In the first 2 examples the order is similar to Turkish, but for the 3rd one the modifier comes after the modified in English.
Well as I said in Turkish the modifier always comes before the modified. This is a golden rule you should keep in mind. I had said Turkish is a logical language before. This is an example of it. This simple rule is always maintained however complex a sentence can be.
Now let's make it more complicated.
Dün bir kitap okudum. -- Yesterday, I read a book.
Dün eve dönerken otobüste bir kitap okudum. -- Yesterday, on the way back home, I read a book.
Now let's modifiy the object "bir kitap"
Dün okuduğum bir kitap -- a book which I read yesterday
Dün eve dönerken otobüste okuduğum bir kitap -- a book which I read yesterday, on the bus, on the way back home
Also pay attention to the article. In above examples I used "bir kitap" (a book). If you want to say THE book, you should drop "bir" (a) and say "kitap" (the book). There is no definite article in Turkish. That's why
Bir kitap -- a book
Kitap -- the book
So
Kitab-ı okudum. -- I read the book.
okuduğum kitap -- The book (which) I read.
Notice that in Turkish sentence "kitap" is a definite object so it becomes "kitab-ı" by adding "-ı" suffix. But in the second example "-ı" is not used. Why is that? Because "-ı" is only used with nouns in the object position.
More ex:
Okuduğum kitap masanın üstünde. -- The book which I read is on the table.
Okuduğum kitabı masanın üstüne bıraktım. -- I put on the table the book which I read.
Notice in the first sentence "okuduğum kitap" is the subject of the sentence and the object in the second that is why it becomes "okuduğum kitabı".
Another point is that -dik+POSS can be used alone. It that case it can be thought as of modifiying the thing or what.
okuduğum -- the thing that I read or what I read
okuduğumu anladım -- I understood what I read.
OK we said dik+POSS is used for the things in object position in a sentence. And -an is used for the things in subject position. And it is used alone not by adding possessive suffixes.
Now let's take our simple sentence again.
Bir kitap okudum. -- I read a book.
If we make this a passive sentence "Bir kitap" becomes the object of the sentence.
Bir kitap okundu. -- A book was read.
Here we turn oku-mak (to read) verb into a passive verb oku-n-mak (to be read) by adding a suffix.
In this case we add an "-an" suffix to the verb.
Okun-an bir kitap -- A book which was read
Check the following link for more:
http://mail.egenet.com.tr/~mastersj/turkish-participle-construction.html
|
|
| 15. |
19 Aug 2006 Sat 11:34 pm |
|
Tekrar Merhaba!
Aslan2: Once again, thanks for replying to my question. Your examples are very clear and useful.
The -dIK participle is not as hard to understand as I thought since I just need to add the personal possessive suffixes and it modifies the whole meaning of the utterance as you pointed out. "the modifier always comes before the modified" in turkish, that's a golden rule I will keep in mind for sure!
I haven't seen the linck you gave me yet as I was trying to understand all of this first but be sure I'll take a look and once again, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, turkish learners !
More questions are on the way, I hope you don't mind but I can't learn without asking, can I?!
selamlar:
Dilara.
|
|
| 16. |
20 Aug 2006 Sun 09:52 am |
|
Quoting Dilara: Tekrar Merhaba!
Aslan2: Once again, thanks for replying to my question. Your examples are very clear and useful.
More questions are on the way, I hope you don't mind but I can't learn without asking, can I?!
selamlar:
Dilara.
|
No problem. I think I can give you some more info since you are interested.
Let's formulate this dik+POSS thing.
When you want to make a noun out of the object of a sentence and modify it using the verb and subject of the same sentence, you should use this construction.
Sentence= Subject + ... + Object + Verb + tense + personal endings.
Here,
* Subject can be personal pronouns or something else
* ... is other stuff, can be time or place adverbs like yesterday, on the bus etc.
* Object is the key one we want to modify using the other parts of the sentence
* Verb is the one we will attach -dik suffix
* Tense part will be lost, it can be past tense or present tense. It doesn't matter, it is dropped.
* personal ending defines the grammatical person. This is the one we will attach personal suffixes to -dik suffix
1- Subject is a personal pronoun
In this case, personal pronoun is usually dropped in Turkish.
Ex.
(Ben) bir kitap okudum. -- I read a book.
Here object is "bir kitap" (a book) and it is going to be modified.
Verb is oku-mak (to read) we will attach -dik suffix to it. So we have "oku-duk" at hand.
Person is I, so we need to add -(i)m (my) personal possessive suffix, now we have "okuduğum" at hand.
So according to modifier and modified rule.
okuduğum kitap.
I said the personal pronoun is usually dropped but sometimes it is not dropped. In that case object is also included by adding personal possessive pronouns which are:
Benim -- My
Senin -- Your
Onun -- his/her/its
Bizim -- Our
Sizin -- Your
Onların -- Their
Ben bir kitap okudum.
Benim okuduğum bir kitap.
2- Subject is not personal pronoun
In this case, subject is also include by using genitive case suffix -(n)in. Similar to the case above when a personal pronoun is not dropped.
Ex:
Kız bir kitap okudu. -- The girl read a book.
Now the subject is "Kız" (The girl) and we need add -(n)in suffix to it so "Kız-ın".
Kızın okuduğu bir kitap. -- a book which the girl read.
I said tense part is dropped. Let's make it clear with the following example.
Kız bir kitap okudu. -- The girl read a book. (Past)
Kız bir kitap okuyor. -- The girl is reading a book. (Present)
Both of the above become
Kızın okuduğu kitap. -- a book which the girl read
or
Kızın okuduğu kitap. -- a book which the girl is reading
So if we formulate
Subject ... Object Verb+Tense+PersonalEnding
becomes
Subject+Genitive ... V+-dik+POSS Object
and which is equal to the following in English
object which Subj V+tense ...
Ex.
Ben dün bir kitap okudum. -- I read a book yesterday.
Benim dün okuduğum bir kitap -- a book which I read yesterday.
Sen dün bir kitap okudun. -- You read a book yesterday.
Senin dün okuduğun bir kitap -- a book which you read yesterday.
Ali şimdi bir kitap okuyor. -- Ali is reading a book now
Ali-nin şimdi okuduğu kitap. -- The book which Ali is reading now.
O şimdi bir kitap okuyor. -- He is reading a book now.
O-nun şimdi okuduğu kitap. -- The book which he is reading now.
|
|
| 17. |
21 Aug 2006 Mon 01:13 am |
|
I think the -dik participle is no longer a problem for me! by means of these examples and explanations you gave me it seemed to "fit" in my head perfectly!.
I've printed all of this because I'm creatıng a kind of "hand-made book" with all the information I get from the forums as there are NO turkish books , dictionaries or teachers here in my country! (Chile) it's so depressing! anyway I won't give up...
Thank you Aslan2 and all of you who contribute to this great site.
¡Gracias!
Dilara.
|
|
| 18. |
21 Aug 2006 Mon 01:31 am |
|
Aslan2, you give excellent, professional explanations, thanks a lot
Are you a teacher?
|
|
| 19. |
21 Aug 2006 Mon 01:40 am |
|
Quoting slavica: Aslan2, you give excellent, professional explanations, thanks a lot
Are you a teacher? |
Good poınt!!
I thınk Aslan2 ıs a teacher too! ıf not, he should , serıously!! great job!!
|
|
| 20. |
21 Aug 2006 Mon 07:37 am |
|
Quoting slavica: Aslan2, you give excellent, professional explanations, thanks a lot
Are you a teacher? |
No, I am not. But I like learning languages so I also try to learn my native language better. That's it. I have not covered everything on the subject but for beginners it should be OK.
|
|
|
