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a suffix confusion
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| 1. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 02:00 pm |
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"kese kağıtlarının içinde ekmekler"
i understand that "kese kağıtlar" is the plural form and means "paper bags", and i suppose the "ının" part is the genetive suffix? but it doesn't make sense because as "kese kağıtlar" ends with the consonant "r" so we should simply add "ın"...
can anyone explain what "ının" is please? thx alot!!!
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| 2. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 02:11 pm |
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Quoting iHeartCrouchy: "kese kağıtlarının içinde ekmekler"
i understand that "kese kağıtlar" is the plural form and means "paper bags", and i suppose the "ının" part is the genetive suffix? but it doesn't make sense because as "kese kağıtlar" ends with the consonant "r" so we should simply add "ın"...
can anyone explain what "ının" is please? thx alot!!! |
There is possessive suffix in "Kese kağıtlar-ı". "Kese kağıtlar" is not good in Turkish.
Kese kağıd-ı -- Paper bag (sing.)
Kese kağıtlar-ı -- Paper bags (pl.)
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| 3. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 02:20 pm |
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lol thx!!! it's the possessive suffix again that got me confused, i should really look into that...
so you are saying that when a noun is modified by another word (like bag is modified by paper), we should always add the possessive suffix?
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| 4. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 02:43 pm |
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Quoting iHeartCrouchy: lol thx!!! it's the possessive suffix again that got me confused, i should really look into that...
so you are saying that when a noun is modified by another word (like bag is modified by paper), we should always add the possessive suffix? |
Usually yes. But consider this
kese kağıd-ım -- my paper bag
kese kağıtlar-ım -- my paper bags
kese kağıd-ın -- your paper bag
kese kağıtlar-ın -- your paper bags
3rd person possessive suffix needs special attention.
Kese kağıtlar-ı -- his/her paper bags
or
Kese kağıt-ları -- their paper bag (sing.)
Kese kağıt-ları -- their paper bags (pl.)
The last one is interesting. 3rd person pl. possessive is -ları and plural suffix -lar but the following is not used
kese kagıt-lar-ları
instead
kese kağıt-ları
And when you add a suffix to create a new word (in Turkish yapım eki), you need to omit the possessive suffix
Kese kağıd-ı -- paper bag
Kese kağıt-çı -- paper bag dealer (-ı drops)
Kese kağıt-lı -- with paper bag (-ı drops)
Kese kağıt-sız -- witout paper bag (-ı drops)
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| 5. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 03:38 pm |
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Quote: Usually yes. But consider this
kese kağıd-ım -- my paper bag
kese kağıtlar-ım -- my paper bags
kese kağıd-ın -- your paper bag
kese kağıtlar-ın -- your paper bags
3rd person possessive suffix needs special attention.
Kese kağıtlar-ı -- his/her paper bags
or
Kese kağıt-ları -- their paper bag (sing.)
Kese kağıt-ları -- their paper bags (pl.)
The last one is interesting. 3rd person pl. possessive is -ları and plural suffix -lar but the following is not used
kese kagıt-lar-ları
instead
kese kağıt-ları
And when you add a suffix to create a new word (in Turkish yapım eki), you need to omit the possessive suffix
Kese kağıd-ı -- paper bag
Kese kağıt-çı -- paper bag dealer (-ı drops)
Kese kağıt-lı -- with paper bag (-ı drops)
Kese kağıt-sız -- witout paper bag (-ı drops)
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so "kese kağıd-ı" means "paper bag", but i'm confused about literally who actually "possesses" who here?
"kese kağıtlar-ının icinde" can actully mean "your paperbags' inside" and "his/her/its papaerbags'inside", is it ambiguous? or is this sort of understanding wrong?
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| 6. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 04:48 pm |
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ok now correct me pls,cause i guess i'm getting confused here .
"kese kağıtlarının içinde ekmekler"
means,
bread inside YOUR paper bag ,right ?
kese kağıtlarının
first IN is the possessive pronoun of sen,which i am talking to
Second IN is the possessive pronoun for the 3 person which is here the paper ?
Doğru mu ?
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| 7. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 05:48 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: ok now correct me pls,cause i guess i'm getting confused here .
"kese kağıtlarının içinde ekmekler"
means,
bread inside YOUR paper bag ,right ?
kese kağıtlarının
first IN is the possessive pronoun of sen,which i am talking to
Second IN is the possessive pronoun for the 3 person which is here the paper ?
Doğru mu ? |
yes this is one understanding of it i guess, but i think it can also mean his/her/its paperbags' inside, for, if you separate the first ın you get kese kağıtları which means his/her/its paperbag, and since it ends with a vowel ı it should be followed by nın but not ın and so it is the same spelling but a different meaning...
can i do this? i'm so being tortured by suffixes here...
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| 8. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 05:52 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: ok now correct me pls,cause i guess i'm getting confused here .
"kese kağıtlarının içinde ekmekler"
means,
bread inside YOUR paper bag ,right ?
kese kağıtlarının
first IN is the possessive pronoun of sen,which i am talking to
Second IN is the possessive pronoun for the 3 person which is here the paper ?
Doğru mu ? |
It may be both: "your" and "the"
senin kese kağıtlarının içinde << your bags
or general:
kese kağıtlarının içinde << the bags
the second refers both of them, but the first one emphesizes "yours"
and sure "her/his/its" too...
onun kese kağıtlarının içinde << her, his, its
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| 9. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 07:36 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix:
It may be both: "your" and "the"
senin kese kağıtlarının içinde << your bags
or general:
kese kağıtlarının içinde << the bags
the second refers both of them, but the first one emphesizes "yours"
and sure "her/his/its" too...
onun kese kağıtlarının içinde << her, his, its |
Ok then i uderstand it when it means 'your'
How about 'the'or 'O'
kağıtlarının
kağıtlar + ı + n +nın
kağıtlar + iyelik ekleri + n + nın
What is that last 'nın'?
The only case i saw comes in this form,it consist of
ad + (n)In ad + (s)I
Like, Ali'nin kitapı
İ think i got confused,
Can anyone enlighten me pls ?
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| 10. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 07:54 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting caliptrix:
It may be both: "your" and "the"
senin kese kağıtlarının içinde << your bags
or general:
kese kağıtlarının içinde << the bags
the second refers both of them, but the first one emphesizes "yours"
and sure "her/his/its" too...
onun kese kağıtlarının içinde << her, his, its |
Ok then i uderstand it when it means 'your'
How about 'the'or 'O'
kağıtlarının
kağıtlar + ı + n +nın
kağıtlar + iyelik ekleri + n + nın
What is that last 'nın'?
The only case i saw comes in this form,it consist of
ad + (n)In ad + (s)I
Like, Ali'nin kitapı
İ think i got confused,
Can anyone enlighten me pls ? |
It's the genitive case suffix -(n)in.
kese kağıd-ı -- paper bag
(senin) kese kağıd-ın -- your paper bag
(senin) kese kağıtlar-ın -- your paper bags
(senin) kese kağıtlar-ın-ın -- of your paper bags
(senin) kese kağıtlar-ın-ın içi -- inside of your paper bags
(senin) kese kağıtlar-ın-ın içi-nde -- in your paper bags
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