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English loanwords in the Turkish language
(25 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       tpace
9 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 05:50 pm

Thanks Erdinc and Deli_kizin.

The fact that Turkish is a phonetically language (you write as you speak) and that your country is not bilingual (including English), I think that people accept these loanwords and consider them as Turkish much more easier than Maltese. The latter are familiar with English words and see them strange when they are written in Maltese, so they tend to leave the words as they are in English. Some stations/newspapers use the Maltese version of them but people still find it difficult to write them. English loanwords are entering the Maltese language quite rapidly.

It still remains a question for me when you say that almost 1% of the Turkish loanwords are left written as they originally are in English (like web, chat and show).

a) Is it the TDK who decided to leave such words like this?
b) If yes on what purposes? Why have not they been written in Turkish like most of the other borrowed words?

c) When you write this 'English' version of a word do you write it in italics or in inverted commas?

d) Modern words like those from Technology, Science and Music are all being given Turkish orthography or is there an amount of them left as they are in English?

e) Regarding the msn users and the 13-17 years old people, is it clear like that when you tell me that people from 20 years of age (or even a bit younger) start writing 'good' Turkish? Since they have been using 'wrong' English for almost 5 years don't they get familiar with this type of writing and continue using it?

I think that teenagers and people of this age are much more familiar with English than adults. So do they still accept English loanwords written in Turkish or leave such words written as they are in English?

11.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 11:33 pm

Really interesting thread this. Where will you publish the results of your investigation and will we be able to read about the Turkish part?

I'll leave the questions to be answered for Erdinç.. to be honest i really admire your knowledge about language, Erdinç.

Good luck with your investigation, tpace.

12.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Mar 2006 Sat 01:11 am

Quote:

It still remains a question for me when you say that almost 1% of the Turkish loanwords are left written as they originally are in English (like web, chat and show).



This is because there just a few of these kind words that have a strong resistance. They resist to be written according Turkish phonetics. They have a too strong "visual image". I don't know how else to call this. I just made this term up. The strong visual imgage of a word is supported by TV or Internet. We have seen for a long time the words show, chat, web etc. on screens and boards, advertisings etc. Of course a Turkish spelling is suggested for these words as well but the public doesnt accept it since the strong visual image of these words.

The words text and sex are also interesting examples. They are used with their English spelling as well as with their Turkish spelling tekst and seks. But texts is going to be omited with time since it will be replaced with "metin".

Quote:

a) Is it the TDK who decided to leave such words like this?


No of course not. If it had been up to them they would even change the loanwords and replace them with pure Turkish words. instead otobüs they suggested götürgeç but nobody has even heard that word. You can't change a word by force. Of course the reform years were different. We changed everything from the alphabet to clothes, from the calendar to words. During the reforms the country turned its face from East to West.

Quote:

b) If yes on what purposes? Why have not they been written in Turkish like most of the other borrowed words?


This is because the visual image of the word being to strong. The word jean had a strong resistance as well. People didnt want to write it as cin and for a while it was written as jean but at the end it was replaced buy a Turkish word "kot" so finally we got rid of the trouble.

Quote:

c) When you write this 'English' version of a word do you write it in italics or in inverted commas?



I think you wanted to say 'the' instead 'this'. Both are acceptable. Inverted commas are more common. If you are talking about a word you need to distinguish the words from your own words. The best way is to write it like 'this'.

Quote:

d) Modern words like those from Technology, Science and Music are all being given Turkish orthography or is there an amount of them left as they are in English?


Yes all of them get a Turkish spelling. We say moleküler biyoloji, morfolofjik analiz.
Open this page and you will find the names of departments of a Turkish University. You will see many smillar examples of loanwords.
http://www.odtu.edu.tr/academic/units.php

Quote:

e) Regarding the msn users and the 13-17 years old people, is it clear like that when you tell me that people from 20 years of age (or even a bit younger) start writing 'good' Turkish? Since they have been using 'wrong' English for almost 5 years don't they get familiar with this type of writing and continue using it?



Usually the misuse of language is related with the desire of catching other people's attention. When the people grow older they are less likely to do these things as the young people do. But of course lots of things will remain. Also some guys just can't resist to show up that they know some English. Some Turkish party girls are likely to use a few English words in their dialogues.

I have seen some kids who write evet as ewet.

Quote:

I think that teenagers and people of this age are much more familiar with English than adults. So do they still accept English loanwords written in Turkish or leave such words written as they are in English?



They have grown with the loanwords. Until you learn English you don't realise that the words are loanwords and you see them as Turkish words. There will be many long years passes by before a Turkish teenager learns English and it is not also so easy for Turks to learn English. Many Turks find it difficult. Speaking an average English is usually not the case for the average Turkish teenager.

13.       tpace
9 posts
 04 Mar 2006 Sat 02:57 am

What about words like:

TECHNOLOGY
email, spam, snapshot, printout, printer, scanner, RAM, hard-disk, chip, online, internet

SHOPS
shopping centre, coiffeure, franchise,

OTHERS
know-how, mortgage


How are these words said and written in Turkish? Have you found a Turkish word for these?...
...And not only that. If yes, is this Turkish word being used by the majority or do people tend to leave the English word as it is?


14.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Mar 2006 Sat 06:31 am

1. Teknoloji : usage 100%

2. email : 90% eposta 10%

3. spam 100% (this is the only option for that term but this term is not so common anyway)

4. -there is no word for snapshot.

5. 'çıktı' means printout. "Çıktı almak" to take printouts. Or "yazdırmak" can be used. No English word here.

6. printer:30% yazıcı:%70

7. scanner %60 tarayıcı 40%

8. RAM 100%

9. hard-disk : %85 sabit disk 15%

10. chip 20% çip 80%

11. online 95% çevrimiçi 5%

12. internet 100%

13. alışveriş merkezi (this is the word for shopping center and the other words we don't have)

14. know-how I have heard some Turks who know English speaking about know-how as it is written. We have countles alternatives to this but there is no single agreement yet. This word is very uncommon.

15. mortgage 100% this word is just introduced in 2005. Currently we are trying different translations. A few newspapers are using "tutulu satış" (held sale)

The words that don't have 100% usage are still new words. There has to pass more time untill the public decides on one or another. Loanwords in Turkish are not known as loanwords. Turks think they are Turkish words. Only when they learn English they realise the smillarities. Of course many Turks never learn even the basic English.

There are many Turks who use the words teknoloji, modern, kültür, otobüs, minibüs, motor, metre, kilo, doktor etc without even knowing that these words exist in other languages.

Considering Turks older than 40 I would say,
about 40% would not know that these words exist in another language,
about 50% would know that they exist in another languages but would not be able to tell you what word it is in English for instance.
about 10% will mention 'technology', culture, doctor etc.

Considering Turks younger than 40 I would say,
about 20% would not know that these words exist in another language,
about 40% would know that they exist in another languages but would not be able to tell you what word it is in English for instance.
about 40% will tell you 'technology' is the source for teknoloji and 'doctor' is the source for doktor and 'kültür' comes from 'culture'. Nobody will bother with French etc.

I don't have the statistics but I think 30% of Turks speak or understand English at a basic or a higher lever. Those who can have a conversation with an English speaker (a simple conversation like talking about the weather or about football) should be 10% or less.

15.       Elisa
0 posts
 04 Mar 2006 Sat 12:48 pm

Quoting erdinc:


13. alışveriş merkezi (this is the word for shopping center and the other words we don't have)



I've seen the word kuaför many times though.
But that one comes from French.

16.       erdinc
2151 posts
 04 Mar 2006 Sat 04:52 pm

Quoting Elisa:

I've seen the word kuaför many times though.
But that one comes from French.



Yes you are right. Kuaför is a well known and very common word. I couldnt recognise the French word coiffeure. I missed that one.

17.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 02 Apr 2006 Sun 02:57 pm

Quoting Elisa:


I've seen the word kuaför many times though.
But that one comes from French.



How lovely it is to speak multiple languages

18.       Elisa
0 posts
 02 Apr 2006 Sun 03:31 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting Elisa:


I've seen the word kuaför many times though.
But that one comes from French.



How lovely it is to speak multiple languages



Claro que sí!

19.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 02 Apr 2006 Sun 03:39 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting Elisa:


I've seen the word kuaför many times though.
But that one comes from French.



How lovely it is to speak multiple languages



Claro que sí!



Overduidelijk!

Izmir'de kuaföre gittim

20.       tpace
9 posts
 03 Apr 2006 Mon 07:20 pm

I have a list of words and wish to have their corresponding Turkish word. I am interested in having the mostly used words by speakers and media in Turkey. My aim is to see the integration of such English loanwords in the Turkish orthography.

Please give me the plural as well for nouns. For verbs conjugate them in the 2nd person singular (you).

Thanks for your help.


Food
bacon
steak
jam
sandwich

Drinks
brandy
grapefruit
juice
whisky

Animals
bulldog
kangaroo

Sports
boxer
football
coach
tennis
to shoot (a ball)
to score (a goal)

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