Practice Turkish |
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A Few Sentences, Vol. II
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90. |
09 Sep 2011 Fri 01:40 am |
While I was doing my homework my sister tried to catch the cat which had run away. Ben ev ödevimi yapıyorken/yaparken kız kardeşim kaçmış olan (or kaçan) kediyi tutmaya çalışıyordu.
Hi Abla I think you are doing great, I think soon, you´ll be firing off perfect translations here and coaching Turkish like a breeze. I am inspired by your enthusiasm.
I hope you don´t mind me posting to here. But your sentences inspired a questionunderstand the -ken/-kan suffix is for saying "while/whilst". And in your example, its for a verb "ödevimi yaparken".
Can you use that suffix for location? An example in English;
"While you were at the cafe, your mother called."
While I am on the bus, I like to read.
Both are interchangeble, and don´t loose the context when you swap the clauses, but would you use -ken here or treat -while as a preposition with -den önce ?
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91. |
09 Sep 2011 Fri 10:38 am |
Hello, Mavili. I´m glad you dropped by. What comes to Turkish language I have come to the conclusion that who is once a learner will always be a learner. But I like it that way. Enthusiasm is one form of happiness.
What I know about iken or its suffixed form -(y)ken it can stick to adjectives at least, like in
Ben hastayken uyurum ´While I´m sick I sleep´
or even to suffixed nouns but you will have to wait until one of the experts comes and clears it for us.
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92. |
09 Sep 2011 Fri 11:28 am |
Notes:
1. Expressions of time are difficult. The differences are small and in many sentences I can’t give reasons why I chose to prefer one to another. I thought to myself that maybe –diğinde is the kind of general ‘when’ which can’t go very much wrong but I’m not sure.
2. Kahire’ye ilk kez gittiğimde şehir ile tarafından korkutuldum.
> Kahire´ye ilk gidişimde, şehir beni ürküttü.
* I knew that there is an –iş-infinitive in Turkish but for the first time I see a place where it is needed.
* Ok, you say active voice is better but a question rises from the agent of this passive sentence. But I wonder what happened to şehir before it could turn into an agent. I mean if we change
Köpek|ten korktu
Also (similarly):
Kahire´ye ilk gidişimde/gittiğimde, şehirden ürktüm.
into a causative clause, is it really going to be
Köpek korkuttu
where the dog is a real subject? (So it seems when I look at it now. I guess I hereby explained the causative to myself.)
3. akşam yemek için = to eat in the evening
akşam yemeği için = for the dinner
I guess I understood this now: the latter is izafet + için, and yemek in the previous one is understood as a verb, isn’t it? Exactly Actually it is a simple but amazing example of what a little possessive suffix can do.
4. çevrimiçi ‘online’ is an adjective, isn’t it, ‘the one who is in the circle’? And ‘offline’ is çevrimdışı. Of course. Exactly
5. The most frustrating mistakes which I think I shouldn’t be repeating any more are those in morphology. Like the dative sg. 2. personal pronoun sene. I’m glad it delighted you, si++.
Actually "sene" (and "bene") is regular form and is used in Anatolia. But in İstanbul Turkish it became "sana" (and "bana") which is irregular.
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93. |
09 Sep 2011 Fri 11:45 am |
Hi Abla I think you are doing great, I think soon, you´ll be firing off perfect translations here and coaching Turkish like a breeze. I am inspired by your enthusiasm.
I hope you don´t mind me posting to here. But your sentences inspired a questionunderstand the -ken/-kan suffix is for saying "while/whilst". And in your example, its for a verb "ödevimi yaparken".
Can you use that suffix for location? An example in English;
"While you were at the cafe, your mother called."
While I am on the bus, I like to read.
Both are interchangeble, and don´t loose the context when you swap the clauses, but would you use -ken here or treat -while as a preposition with -den önce ?
Yes you can use them interchangably. "İken" part is an adverbial clause and conforms to main clause tense.
While you were at the cafe, your mother called. = Sen kafede iken, annen aradı.
While you are at the cafe, your mother may call. = Sen kafede iken, annen arayabilir.
While you are at the cafe, if your mother calls... = Sen kafede iken, annen ararsa...
While you are at the cafe, your mother will call. = Sen kafede iken, annen arayacak.
While I was on the bus, your mother called. = Ben otobüste iken, annen aradı.
While I am on the bus, your mother may call. = Ben otobüste iken, annen arayabilir.
While I am on the bus, if your mother calls... = Ben otobüste iken, annen ararsa...
While I am on the bus, your mother will call. = Ben otobüste iken, annen arayacak.
Suffix form is also possible:
kafede iken = kafedeyken or otobüste iken = otobüsteyken.
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94. |
09 Sep 2011 Fri 11:51 am |
Hello, Mavili. I´m glad you dropped by. What comes to Turkish language I have come to the conclusion that who is once a learner will always be a learner. But I like it that way. Enthusiasm is one form of happiness.
What I know about iken or its suffixed form -(y)ken it can stick to adjectives at least, like in
Ben hastayken uyurum ´While I´m sick I sleep´
or even to suffixed nouns but you will have to wait until one of the experts comes and clears it for us.
ben x-im = I am x
ben x iken = when/while I am/was x
sen x-sin = you are/were x
sen x iken = when/while you are/were x
(o) x = He/she/it is x
(o) x iken = when/while he/she/it is/was x
Example:
Genç = he/she is young
gençken = when he/she is/was young
etc.
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95. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 01:03 am |
- He said the test was difficult. Sınavın zor olduğunu söyledi.
- He says the test is difficult. Sınavın zor olduğunu söylüyor.
- Kerem will say that he comes to school every day. Kerem her gün okula gittiğini söyleyecek.
- Ali said Kerem comes to school every day. Ali, Kerem’in her gün okula gittiğini söyledi.
- She said she wanted to bring her children the next day. Çocuklarını ertesi gün getirmek istediğini söyledi.
- Ökkeş said his wife had gone with him to the show the day before. Ökkeş, karısının önceki gün kendisinle sergiye gitmiş olduğunu anlattı.
- Grandmother asked me if I wanted to come with her. Büyükanne bana kendisinle gelmek isteyip istemediğimi sordu.
- The teacher asked me why instead of studying English I didn’t choose German. Öğretmen, İngilizceyi öğreneceğime Almancayı niçin seçmediğimi sordu.
- Nobody knew he had visited London twice. Onun Londra’yı iki kez ziyaret ettiğini hiçbir bilmedi.
- The poor man convinced his wife that he was going to find a new job. Zavallı adam, karısını yeni bir iş bulacağına inandırdı.
- The boy had to promise that he will try to stop smoking. Çocuk sigara içmekten vazgeçmeye çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi.
- It seems that our first-born is going to be an engineer after three years. İlk çocuğumuz üç yıl sonra mühendis olacağa benziyor.
- Ömer noticed the lesson had already started when he entered the classroom. Ömer, sınıfa girirken dersin halen başlamış olduğunun farkına vardı.
- She said next week´s lesson is on reported speech. Gelecek haftaki dersin rapor edilen konu üzerine olacağını söyledi.
- She said she needed to have a computer to teach English online. İngilizceyi çevrimde öğreteceği için bilgisayarının lazım olduğunu söyledi.
- The policeman ordered me to get out of the car and rise my hands. Polis, arabadan inip ellerimi yukarı çıkarmamı emretti.
- The man with the gun warned us not to move. Silahlı kimse hareket etmemizden uyardı.
- The doctor told you to stop drinking. Doktor içki içmekten vazgeçmenizi söyledi.
- She suggested I get a mechanic to look at the car. Arabaya bir makinist baktırmamı ileri sürdü.
- The guide asked if I had been to Istanbul before. Rehber bundan önce İstanbula gelip gelmediğimi sordu.
- The elephant asked the mouse: “Why are you so small.?” Fil fareye “Niye o kadar küçüksün?” diye sormuş.
- We were explained that it could be difficult to find the house. Evin bulunması zor olabileceğini anlatıldık.
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96. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 01:34 am |
- He said the test was difficult. Sınavın zor olduğunu söyledi.
- He says the test is difficult. Sınavın zor olduğunu söylüyor.
- Kerem will say that he comes to school every day. Kerem okula hergün geldiğini söyleyecek.
- Ali said Kerem comes to school every day. Ali, Kerem’in her gün okula geldiğini söyledi.
- She said she wanted to bring her children the next day. Çocuklarını ertesi gün getirmek istediğini söyledi.
- Ökkeş said his wife had gone with him to the show the day before. Ökkeş, karısının önceki gün kendisiyle gösteriye gitmiş olduğunu söyledi. [or gittiğini söyledi]
- Grandmother asked me if I wanted to come with her. Büyükanne bana kendisiyle gelmek isteyip istemediğimi sordu.
- The teacher asked me why instead of studying English I didn’t choose German. Öğretmen, İngilizceyi öğreneceğime Almancayı niçin seçmediğimi sordu.
- Nobody knew he had visited London twice. Onun Londra’yı iki kez ziyaret ettiğini kimse bilmedi.[bilmiyordu sounds better]
- The poor man convinced his wife that he was going to find a new job. Zavallı adam, karısını yeni bir iş bulacağına inandırdı.
- The boy had to promise that he will try to stop smoking. Çocuk sigarayı bırakmaya çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi.
- It seems that our first-born is going to be an engineer after three years. İlk çocuğumuz üç yıl sonra mühendis olacağa benziyor.
- Ömer noticed the lesson had already started when he entered the classroom. Ömer, sınıfa girdiğinde dersin halen başlamış olduğunun farkına vardı.
- She said next week´s lesson is on reported speech. Gelecek haftaki dersin dolaylı anlatım üzerine olacağını söyledi.
- She said she needed to have a computer to teach English online. İngilizceyi çevrimiçi [internette] öğretmek için bir bilgisayara ihtiyacı olduğunu söyledi.
- The policeman ordered me to get out of the car and rise my hands. Polis, arabadan inip ellerimi yukarı çıkarmamı kaldırmamı emretti.
- The man with the gun warned us not to move. Silahlı kimse adam hareket etmememiz için bizi uyardı.
- The doctor told you to stop drinking. Doktor içki içmekten vazgeçmenizi söyledi içmeyi bırakmanızı söyledi [ sounds better]
- She suggested I get a mechanic to look at the car. Arabayı bir makinist tamirciye baktırmamı ileri sürdü. önerdi.
- The guide asked if I had been to Istanbul before. Rehber bundan daha önce İstanbula gelip gelmediğimi sordu.
- The elephant asked the mouse: “Why are you so small.?” Fil fareye “Niye o kadar küçüksün?” diye sormuş.[sordu sounds better]
- We were explained that it could be difficult to find the house. Bize, ev bulmanın zor olabileceği izah edildi.
Edited (9/16/2011) by tunci
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97. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 08:52 am |
Oh, thank you, tunci. You were so quick. I was surprised to find them done in the morning. I´ll see through the corrections carefully and probably make some notes later today.
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98. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 01:48 pm |
Notes:
Again there are mistakes that could have been avoided if I was more careful. After staring at the sentences for a few days, though, I suddenly feel like getting rid of them. What I´m happy about is that most infinitives and participles were in their right places because that´s what I wanted to practice.
1. It´s hard to figure out the division of labour between different verbs of saying and telling (söylemek, anlatmak, demek). If someone had the time to explain them one day it would be nice. (Or maybe there is an old thread, I didn´t check yet.)
2. Doesn´t it bother you when there are two dative words in a queue, like in Çocuk sigarayı bırakmaya çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi. What if there was still annesine before söz vermek?
3. Sometimes için takes -mek-infinitive with a possessive suffix and sometimes without, like in
İngilizceyi çevrimiçi [internette] öğretmek için
Silahlı kimse adam hareket etmememiz için bizi uyardı.
What is the difference?
4. In the last sentence, the predicate was changed and the whole structure is different in the correction. I would still like to know what was the biggest handicap in my red sentence. Where did it begin to go wrong? (I thought about it a long time and would like to know.)
Evin bulunması zor olabileceğini anlatıldık.
Edited (9/16/2011) by Abla
[A line disappeared.]
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99. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 03:13 pm |
Notes:
Again there are mistakes that could have been avoided if I was more careful. After staring at the sentences for a few days, though, I suddenly feel like getting rid of them. What I´m happy about is that most infinitives and participles were in their right places because that´s what I wanted to practice.
1. It´s hard to figure out the division of labour between different verbs of saying and telling (söylemek, anlatmak, demek). If someone had the time to explain them one day it would be nice. (Or maybe there is an old thread, I didn´t check yet.)
2. Doesn´t it bother you when there are two dative words in a queue, like in Çocuk sigarayı bırakmaya çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi. What if there was still annesine before söz vermek?
3. Sometimes için takes -mek-infinitive with a possessive suffix and sometimes without, like in
İngilizceyi çevrimiçi [internette] öğretmek için
Silahlı kimse adam hareket etmememiz için bizi uyardı.
What is the difference?
4. In the last sentence, the predicate was changed and the whole structure is different in the correction. I would still like to know what was the biggest handicap in my red sentence. Where did it begin to go wrong? (I thought about it a long time and would like to know.)
Evin bulunması zor olabileceğini anlatıldık.
Its quite normal for learners to having trouble to pick up which one for which case.
Söylemek ---> to say, to tell as you know, for example ;
Bana derdini söyle ---> Tell me your problem.
Sana bir şey söyleyeceğim ---> I will tell you something. [ I will say something to you]
for the first sentence above we can replace "söylemek" with "demek" but that wouldnt sound good.
for the second sentence that would sound ok. if we replace it with "demek"
Sana bir şey diyeceğim.
Anlatmak ---> its more like " to explain or describe ,something to somebody " its not just telling. You go more into details when you use "anlatmak"
Bana sorununu anlat ---> Bana evini anlat ---> Describe your house to me. [tell about your house]
Dont worry Abla, these usages will sink into your mind as you practice and study them. One day you will use them automaticly in the right place without thinking.
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100. |
16 Sep 2011 Fri 03:48 pm |
2: Doesn´t it bother you when there are two dative words in a queue, like in Çocuk sigarayı bırakmaya çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi. What if there was still annesine before söz vermek?
Yes it does bother me abit, alternatively you can say;
Çocuk sigarayı bırakmaya çalışacağına dair annesine söz vermek zorundaydı.
dair = concerning, about
so we have still two dative case sorry..i like datives..it just sounds to my ear better..your sentence was not wrong but at first look this way sounded better to me.
lets check your sentence again;
The boy had to promise that he will try to stop smoking. Çocuk sigara içmekten vazgeçmeye çalışacağına söz vermek zorunda idi.
as I said thats not wrong..may be the "vazgeçmeye " bit wasnt welcomed by my ears...
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