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Davos/Turkey and Maj. Gen. Avi Mizrahi of Israel
(11 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 14 Feb 2009 Sat 04:40 pm

On Friday, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that Maj. Gen. Avi Mizrahi, a veteran professional officer, called on Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan to look in the mirror.

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063766.html

He attacked Erdogan for what the Turkish leader imputed to President Shimon Peres at another international conference, the World Economic Forum in Davos. Paraphrasing from Scriptures, he called on Erdogan to look in the mirror. He did not leave it at a clear allusion to the massacre of the Armenians and the suppression of the Kurds, but mentioned the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus as well. In response to Erdogan´s call for Israel to be expelled from the United Nations, Mizrahi suggested that Turkey should be paired with Israel on such an occasion.

 

 

The Israeli General took a step further and accused Turkey of "committing massacre of the Armenians as well as the suppression of the Kurds". Mizrahi also mentioned the so-called Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus, according to the report.

 

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11003853.asp?scr=1

 

I am afraid "what goes round, comes back round" 

2.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 14 Feb 2009 Sat 09:56 pm

Why do you have to say something like "I am afraid what goes around comes around?" Why can´t you jus post the articles in an impartial way and let others comment on it.

 

I am afraid nothing has been going around in the first place to be coming around...

 

Since when are generals telephoning prime ministers? Is it normal for a soldier to be calling a politician in this manner? Should Turkish generals call Obama for example to try to intimidate him with blackmail by suggesting that if Obama does so & so, they will do so & so? He is completely out of place to call Erdogan in the first place. If he is so much of a politician, he should quit his career of murdering people in the name of the State of Israel, and run for a political position. That way, he can at least be taken seriously.

 

The very fact that he actually dared to call shows the amount of guilt they feel about their actions, and the very fact that he tried to blackmail Turkey by implying that they will bring up the Armenian & Kurdish issues in the global platform in retaliation shows clearly that what Erdogan said in Davos, and how he started a criminal investigation together with Spain went straight up their bums. Neither the Armenian issue nor the occupation of Cyprus has nothing to do with the crimes that Israel is and has been committing against humanity for a while. They do not change or relate to the fact that Israel is out of line and needs to stop.

 

There is also another logic of illogicality here. Should the Armenian & Kurdish issues be a justification for Israel committing crimes against humanity under the terms of the UN and the Geneva Convention. Should, for example, Israel be allowed to create concentration camps for Palestinians, and tell the prime minister of Germany to shut up about it simply by saying you did the same in the second world war? Does this logic follow? They are guilty. They know it. And that is why they have no choice but blackmail. If Obama criticizes them for their actions, is this general pseudo-politician slash wisdom-giver call him up and say "look, what about the oppression of blacks until the 60s or the genocide against the indians"?

 

This general is a moron, and he condemned their own actions by calling Erdogan. Why even bother? Let the politicians and the international platform handle it.

 

They still don´t get that Erdogan is from Kasimpasa. Being a Kasimpasali, it is very unlikely that such moronic tactics of intimidation will work against him. They had their first lesson in Davos. They got their second lesson with the criminal investigation thing. And they will have more lessons till they understand that the rest of the world is sick of them and their violence.

 

Is there one country that publicly supported Israel´s actions? They may not have had the balls to criticize them like Erdogan did, but I don´t hear any leader patting them on the back either.



Edited (2/14/2009) by cynicmystic

3.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 12:46 am

 

Quoting cynicmystic

Why do you have to say something like "I am afraid what goes around comes around?" Why can´t you jus post the articles in an impartial way and let others comment on it.

 

 

I wanted to add something..that is all and what is wrong with it?

 

Quote:

Since when are generals telephoning prime ministers? Is it normal for a soldier to be calling a politician in this manner? Should Turkish generals call Obama for example to try to intimidate him with blackmail by suggesting that if Obama does so & so, they will do so & so? He is completely out of place to call Erdogan in the first place. If he is so much of a politician, he should quit his career of murdering people in the name of the State of Israel, and run for a political position. That way, he can at least be taken seriously.

 

I dont think a general has "phoned" the PM of Turkey..He talked in an international conference regarding military matters..

 

But when it comes to Army generals talking about  internal or foreign politics, no generals in any country in the world can be compared to Turkish generals..

Almost there is no day  passes the army generals dont talk or comment on political issues in Turkey. I find it quite embarresing and humiliated for every Turk..So the way you wrote, I am sure you would say the same thing for our own generals starting from the head of the army.. yes?

 

Quote:

The very fact that he actually dared to call shows the amount of guilt they feel about their actions, and the very fact that he tried to blackmail Turkey by implying that they will bring up the Armenian & Kurdish issues in the global platform in retaliation shows clearly that what Erdogan said in Davos, and how he started a criminal investigation together with Spain went straight up their bums. Neither the Armenian issue nor the occupation of Cyprus has nothing to do with the crimes that Israel is and has been committing against humanity for a while. They do not change or relate to the fact that Israel is out of line and needs to stop.

 

There is also another logic of illogicality here. Should the Armenian & Kurdish issues be a justification for Israel committing crimes against humanity under the terms of the UN and the Geneva Convention. Should, for example, Israel be allowed to create concentration camps for Palestinians, and tell the prime minister of Germany to shut up about it simply by saying you did the same in the second world war? Does this logic follow? They are guilty. They know it. And that is why they have no choice but blackmail. If Obama criticizes them for their actions, is this general pseudo-politician slash wisdom-giver call him up and say "look, what about the oppression of blacks until the 60s or the genocide against the indians"?


 

Well, I can smell a bit of  hypocracy what you have written up there..When foreign people talk about our own kurdish problem, why are we all (the people) in Turkey saying as a giant chorus ´it is our internal problem. who the hell do you think you are?´.

Why a visit to Diyarbakir by Miterand´s wife makes her a ´low woman´ suddenly in Turkish media and among many Turks?

Why when a delegation sent to Orhan Pamuk´s trial caused uproar? (i can extend make this list going on and on btw..) 

 

As I mentioned in previous threads, of course everybody in the world should be able to take Israel into account for the crimes they have done against palestinians. Of course everybody should be able take somebody into account in Darfur..Of course USA (Bush and his cronies) should be taken into courts.. But when we are accepting this as a normal course of action, you have to accept that ´others have right to ask questions about our own Kurds´. If you say that ´no..I am able to ask Israel about palestinians, but you can NOT ask me anything about kurds´ will be a bit of hypocracy..

 

BUT...Of course Israel should be stopped, of course Israel has been commiting crime against humanity for many years. Of course they are guilty..

 

Quote:

This general is a moron, and he condemned their own actions by calling Erdogan. Why even bother? Let the politicians and the international platform handle it.

 

I take, you will be calling all the generals meddling with the politics in the same way..

 

Quote:

They still don´t get that Erdogan is from Kasimpasa. Being a Kasimpasali, it is very unlikely that such moronic tactics of intimidation will work against him. They had their first lesson in Davos. They got their second lesson with the criminal investigation thing. And they will have more lessons till they understand that the rest of the world is sick of them and their violence.

 

 

I hope that criminal investigation goes to a just conclusion this time..Because in the past, they were trying to convict Ariel Sharon because of his involvement in ´Sabra and Shatila´. But that investigation dried up later on..

I dont think Erdogan can be personaly intimidated..He can not be responsible for Armenian or Cyprus issue (I still believe Turkey had every right to intervene  in 1974). But however, he has to lower his ´being a kasimpasali´ tune (and I am expecting he will after the elections) otherwise we will see many ´what goes round comes rounds´ in the international political arena..

 

And also I want to be a bit cautious about the way Erdogan´s Davos performance has been percieved in Turkey. As Turkish people, we have many amongs us who is ready to take the whole thing with the psychology such as  ´Turks are awakening, quick..call our ´mehteran´-our old traditional military marching band-´. 

We have to be double cautious actually!!   

 



Edited (2/15/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/15/2009) by thehandsom

4.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 08:52 pm

I didn´t want to quote the whole thing to save space. This is a response for handsom.

 

I certainly agree that stinking generals stick their noses in and out of things all the time, and it pisses me off, too. They should clear the hell out of the political platform with their monkey outfits. For sure. Agreed. However, I don´t recall Turkish generals holding press conferences of this sort pertaining to international politics on this scale. They usually make appearances more on the domestic side. If it is ever on an international platform, it usually involves a tiny island, a standard dispute among Turks & Greeks, a couple of goats as the inhabitants of the disputed island, and remarks about who can piss the furthest.

 

There is nothing wrong with any world leader to challenge Turkey´s past or present policies whether it is in regards to the Kurdish & Armenian issues, the head scarf, or the price of shrimp in Adana. There is something wrong though when the leaders have been aware of one thing or another, have stayed perfectly and politically silent about it, and bring out the threat in the form of a blackmail by suggesting "if you continue to step on our toes, we will step on yours as well." If they had such concerns about these issues, what took them so long to voice these concerns anyway? They should have done it a lot earlier and surely not in retaliation for being exposed in Davos for their crimes. This is what I see wrong about the matter. None of their concerns regarding those issues that they mention are genuine nor do they give a damn about them. They are trying to show a stick under the table saying that "if we are going down, we will take you with us."

 

It is amusing at best if not self-incriminating.

5.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 09:22 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

You might be a bit wrong on above because Turkish Army, most of the time, makes their views public on wide range of issues including Nato/Eu/Cyprus/Armenia etc as well as almost all domestic/political issues..

 

And one more thing to add from my part:

I am not sure shrimps in Adana will be ever be a point of argument between Turkey and the other leaders but definately, at some stage, Turkey and EU will have to have a serious discussions about and why our natural gem, cengelkoy hiyari wont be seen in EU markets because of EU standards. (Cengelkoy hiyari is a delicious type of cucumber from cenegelkoy district of Istanbul. It does not comply with UE standards because it is not long enough!!)

 

6.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 09:23 pm

 Another piece of wisdom. You seem to know a great deal about what constitutes being a real hiyar. Lengthwise, I mean.

Quoting thehandsom

 

You might be a bit wrong on above because Turkish Army, most of the time, makes their views public on wide range of issues including Nato/Eu/Cyprus/Armenia etc as well as almost all domestic/political issues..

 

And one more thing to add from my part:

I am not sure shrimps in Adana will be ever be a point of argument between Turkey and the other leaders but definately, at some stage, Turkey and EU will have to have a serious discussions about and why our natural gem, cengelkoy hiyari wont be seen in EU markets because of EU standards. (Cengelkoy hiyari is a delicious type of cucumber from cenegelkoy district of Istanbul. It does not comply with UE standards because it is not long enough!!)

 

 

 

7.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 09:27 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 Another piece of wisdom. You seem to know a great deal about what constitutes being a real hiyar. Lengthwise, I mean.

 

 

 

Now, now

What you are doing is smelling man..

Please yani..

if you dont have answer, you just go and think about it a little bit..

I am hugely dissapointed in you..

I was expecting better to be honest..

Phew...

8.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 09:35 pm

 I wish I could figure out what you mean...

 

What i am doing is I am smelling man???

 

Please yani????

I think I have shoved your words down your throat on many occasions already in regardsa to your senseless posts and venom-spewing. Why don´t you go digest those first before swallowing more.

 

Phew... as you would say.

 

I understand your frustartion for being an eternally constipated individual, but that is surely no reason to fart all over the place.

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Now, now

What you are doing is smelling man..

Please yani..

if you dont have answer, you just go and think about it a little bit..

I am hugely dissapointed in you..

I was expecting better to be honest..

Phew...

 

 

9.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 09:56 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 I wish I could figure out what you mean...

 

What i am doing is I am smelling man???

 

Please yani????

I think I have shoved your words down your throat on many occasions already in regardsa to your senseless posts and venom-spewing. Why don´t you go digest those first before swallowing more.

 

Phew... as you would say.

 

I understand your frustartion for being an eternally constipated individual, but that is surely no reason to fart all over the place.

 

 

 

yes yes..

I am really frustrated here..

You can not even imagine..lol lol

 

10.       Vania Melamed
36 posts
 30 Jul 2009 Thu 12:10 am

B"H

 

You know who committed acts against humanity?  FDR.

What are Israel´s crimes against humanity that the Palestinians haven´t amplified?  Do I agree with containment or refugee camps? No.  if Israel was truly a theocracy, Jewish law resembles Sharia; the Gazans would feel right at home.  And I´m not Turkish so you´re fully entitled to address your nation´s concerns.  But remember - as you and the rest of the world seem to forget - Israel existed a couple thousand years ago as Israel and Judea during David´s reign.  The term Palestinian is Hellenistic, "Phillistine" meaning, "Invaders", and was derogatory. 

 

The British Christians, with help of most of the self-deprecating European community, established the state of Israel in a most socialist fashion, arbitrary, under the auspice of a safe-haven for Jews after most Islamic and European nations denied them property and religious rights and appropriated their citizenship as second-rate.  The jews who live in Israel after WWII or who started emigrating during the hideous pogroms (which are the exact same things as the children of Darfur experience today) had nothing to do with the state´s establishment.  Why?  The majority of these people were Orthodox Jews, observant, they rejected Socialism, they lived peacefully with Arab gentiles.  These are Zionists.  Hollywood Jewry and Pinkos like Theodore Herzl at the turn of the century were the cause of the bloodlust that arouses mothers and children to embrace fantasies of martyrdom, and what drives the secular Zionist engine to perpetuate the view that all religious people are primitive.

 

If you haven´t lived in Israel or Gaza, perhaps you should reconsider.  Yes, it sucks to be dispersed from your land, regardless of the equivocation of whose it is.  But it also sucks to be the product of families who were forced into Israel by seemingly apologetic Europeans who tacitly agreed none of them wanted Jews in their countries.  FDR turned away ships of Jewish emigres who returned many of them to their deaths.  Europe created a secular Israel to absorb their anti-semitism, and gave the power to the corrupt Commie Kibbutznik minority holdover from Herzl to run this supposedly "Jewish" state.

 

I anticipate hatemail. Here´s where you can send it:  vaniamelamed@hotmail.com

 

 

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