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if the killers are muslim no problem?
(29 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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20.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 03:41 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

I am afraid it is very much a religious issue for many of the people in Turkey including our prime minister and his surroundings.

I gave examples about how they even used the childeren in their protests for Palestinians. 

Then how can you explain they do not say even a single word of critisisim to Sudaneese goverment. 

Possible they killed more childeren that Israel ever did. Plus they raped many of them..

Or course people will turn around and ask the question ´why´.

What is your explanation then?

Why dont YOU say anything for those muslim rapists?

Do you collect and send money to those childeren who got raped there as much as you did for palestinians for example?

 

As a country, if we are thinking to play an international role in politics, first of all we have to be consistent with the truth and your consistency with the truth should be based on some values NOT some cheap profits.

When people suspect that those values are values of NOT universal values, you wont make people believe what you say.. People will accuse you, being double faced.

When you go ´one minute´ at davos and remind ten commandments to Israel´i president then you host child rapists in your country and walk hand in hand  with them, do not utter a single word of critisisim.. and then expect people believe in you..

 

Yes..we did believe..A lot..

 

 

 

 

Hmmmmm, you still havent answered the question handsom

You have chosen that example, and surely you dont expect me to see part of it ´the part you have chosen´ and not all the other parts !

 

Quote:

Why El Bashir and not Sharoon for example ?

 

A semple answer to all the point in your post...

 

Ým not intending to be part of that game !

 

As it is a very long subject, but i will try to give some points

  • As they are Muslims ´both sides´, and also Arabs, so i guess any accusation of taking the side of the Muslims rapists ´as you call them´ are actually....funny if not unlogical !
  • Unless prime minister and his surroundings have told you that personally they are considering it a religious issue then i would agree, persuming they didnt do it, then i dont agree that they are considering it that way, they are simply continuing the role they are trying to play starting from Gaza going through Davos, and in my opinion its something they do to gain more ground with West rather than the East. ´their goal i mean ´
  • As the conflict there between the tripes was up and down for many years ago starting from 1916 or something, and didnt become serious untill the discovery of the oil and uranium, then many parts became involved for their own interests, and suddenly one part obtain weapons some how and start war there, i find myself cant actually believe what those parts say about what is happening there, numbers or whatever...and also watching people of Sudan standing behind their president...make it even harder ! ´for me at least´
  • Having same game played before in Kuwait war, then ending up by invading Ýraq and having control over the oil there...making the game there is more obvious really.
  • Ýts funny that same people who murdered almost million person in Ýraq and have watched/blessed too the killing of thousands and thousands in Palestine and Lebanon crying now for the hummanity and accusing others, playing innocent while their hands are full of blood !
  • Ý dont see there was/ are any court order for Bush or Sharoon, Paris..or many others there, the list is long actually, but there is not...then again why Beshir ?!!!
  • So using the humanity crimes, and the children in this case by them are actually disgusting, because what they mean to them are just card, they are playing it wishing to win !
  • Again its a conspiracy illusion as many like to call it when some weak or threatened countries try to read between the lines, even sometimes its clear and not just between lines, and want/try to protect themselves, April Glaspy in Ýraq wasnt an illusion and war in Ýraq isnt an illusion , and million people died in Ýraq also isnt an illusion !
  • Ý never heard Al Bashir ordered his army to commit war crimes,have you ? But at same time all of us heared Paris and many generals  doing so, so again i dont see what are you comparing here ! Man denying and  the court couldnt  get the needed proves they supposedly having them to condimn him and another refused demands from all over the world to stop the killing and said NO, i wont !
  • ´Ãm not the only bad guy but there are others and muslims too, even worse than me ´ thing wont work at least for who dont benefit from it, Ãsrael is not as bad as Sudan you say ?! ´Possible they killed more childeren that Israel ever did´

Last thing, i dont think people would accuse him of being double faced, but rather judge him of not buying what is being sold and joining the crowd based on that value ´i wont accept dividing other country as same as i dont accept mine to be divided !´ not the other value ´my interests first no matter whom i will step over ! ´

Values are values, not twisted values.

 

Thats why they still believe !

 

21.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 03:45 am

 

Quoting femmeous

i pass 

 

 

 

 Sure femmeous you pass, you are defending what you are hoping they will be  

22.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 03:46 am

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 

Hmmmmm, you still havent answered the question handsom

 

 

First of all, as a mod, will you check and tell me if there are personal insults in the below thread Canli?

Please let us know if there are.. or not..if you are intending to delete if there are any or not lol

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_39584

 

because you seem to be the mod on duty..

23.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 03:54 am

lol lol

I had some serious questions about Canli´s moderation in the past..It is a perfect  time Canli to show that I was NOT right

And

I am still keeping my promise..lol

24.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 04:09 am

Doing so handsom when i saw it, so there was no need for that. 

 

Ý was actually hoping to hop in for some time to respond to this thread and another one then go to bed, so can you ´both´ please allow me this and not taking it from thread to another ?

25.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 04:11 am

 

Quoting CANLI

Doing so handsom when i saw it, so there was no need for that. 

 

Ý was actually hoping to hop in for some time to respond to this thread and another one then go to bed, so can you ´both´ please allow me this and not taking it from thread to another ?

 

But Canli..

I did not NOT respond to anything at all..(as I promised)

Why are you using " can you ´both´ "?

did I?  



Edited (3/11/2009) by thehandsom

26.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 04:15 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

But Canli..

I did not NOT respond to anything at all..(as I promised)

Why are you using " can you ´both´ "?

did I?  

 

 Well actually no

But i meant talking about it from a thread to another.



Edited (3/11/2009) by CANLI

27.       femmeous
2642 posts
 11 Mar 2009 Wed 05:00 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Sure femmeous you pass, you are defending what you are hoping they will be  

 

im passing you, as well as im passing cynic. not because i was wrong.

in order to bring what i have on my mind i posted other texts in this thread, i suppose you didnt read them since you are selective.

i decided that instead of quoting you and getting into a fight i bring my facts.

 

but canli you love fighting. when you provoked me i decided not to get into it.

 

such a bad behavour for someone who is a mod actually, provoker and instigator!

28.       femmeous
2642 posts
 17 Mar 2009 Tue 06:38 pm

Sudan: President orders halt to overseas aid distribution

(its ok to starve unknown with no names black to death. who cares? important is to keep the land from the foreign spies)

Khartoum, 16 March (AKI) - Sudan´s president Omar al-Bashir ordered on Monday international organisations to stop distributing humanitarian aid in the country within a year, saying Sudanese aid groups will take over this job.

"We have ordered the ministry of humanitarian affairs to completely Sudanise the voluntary work in Sudan within one year, and after that no international organisations will distribute relief to Sudanese citizens, said al-Bashir during a rally of Sudanese armed forces.

"They (the international organisations) can just leave their food aid at the airport and Sudanese NGOs (non-governmental organisations) can distribute the relief."

He made the remarks as the joint United Nations-African Union (AU) peacekeeping mission to Darfur (UNAMID) welcomed the safe release on over the weekend of four aid workers who had been abducted at gunpoint on 11 March allegedly in protest over al-Bashir´s indictment by the International Criminal Court at the Hague.

The aid workers - three international and one Sudanese national - from the non-governmental organisation Doctors Without Borders (MSF)´s Belgian arm arrived by government helicopter at Sudan´s El-Fasher Airport in North Darfur.

The aid workers had been taken at gunpoint from their office in the town of Saraf Omra in North Darfur on 11 March. One other Sudanese staff member abducted at the same time had been freed earlier.

One of those released, Mauro d´Ascanio, an Italian doctor, said he was fine and that he was looking forward to speaking with his family. The other staff have been identified as Laura Archer, a Canadian nurse Raphaël Meunier, a French coordinator and Sharif Mohamadin, a Sudanese guard.

"We are very happy. This is a very good thing - we were really concerned about this," said AU-UN Joint Special Representative Rodolphe Adada.

Mohammed Osman Kibir, the Wali, or governor, of North Darfur state, said he personally intervened by negotiating with the abductors over the telephone four times. He flew with a government team to pick up the four aid workers.

While the identities of the abductors have not been made clear, they did inform Kibir that their actions were in response to the decision earlier this month by the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for al-Bashir last week for alleged crimes committed in the region.

Immediately after the ICC announced al-Bashir´s indictment of , the government ordered the expulsion of 13 aid groups which assist nearly 5 million people in Darfur, and the UN has continued to press the Sudanese authorities to reverse the expulsions.

Al-Bashir, the first sitting head of state to be indicted by the court, faces five counts of crimes against humanity, including responsibility for murder, rape and torture, and two counts of war crimes.

An estimated 300,000 people have died, either through direct combat or because of disease, malnutrition or reduced life expectancy, over the past five years in Darfur, where rebels have been fighting government forces and allied Arab militiamen, known as the Janjaweed, since 2003.

29.       Vania Melamed
36 posts
 29 Jul 2009 Wed 11:40 pm

B"H

 

Wait a second, let´s not forget that it was the British Christians who called for a formal estanblishment of the state of Israel, though more than 3,000 years ago the Kingdoms of the first Jewish Patriarchs were erected and Canaan divided into Israel and Judea.  The Palestinians is a derogatory epithet against those non-Jewish settlers who were brought in; it´s a hellenistic term, Philistine, meaning "Invaders".  And no one seemed to care much about the arid, infertile land until orange groves and olive orchards and irrigation sprung up. Sharon may be argued as wrong or right, and because this is a Turkish site, where the majority of you are likely Muslims, your analysis of human atrocities will skew against Jews.  Sharon in your book is no more guilty of war crime than any Palesitnian is who decides to become a Shahid; who says because you kill your own life in the name of G-D it is more righteous than ordering someone else to do it in self-defense?  If illegal seizure of territory is of concern, then how far back must we go in time to see who was in possession of it when?

 

If you want to try someone for War Crimes, why not try the Assyrians 4,000 years ago; then none of us would have this mess.

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Ã fail to see why are you making it a religious issue, or what are you comparing exactly.

People in Darfur are muslims, majority, and i dont agree that the issue in Palestine is jew to Muslim thing, its rather Ýsraeli to Palestinian thing

Darfur is a Sudanese land, where Palestine isnt Ýsraeli´s land.

The conflict in Darfur goes back long time ago and it was between the tripes there till oil and uranium been discovered.

Suddenly people got armed and demand authority !

 

Ýmagine that Kurds in Türkiye demand the land they are living on to be ruled by them and not Turkish government, and used weapones to make it real

Will the Turkish army sit and watch them ?

Will YOU accept it ?!

Why anyone expect Sudan not doing same ?!

And fight for their own land against the  dividing ?

 

People in Palestine been murdered, taken prisoners, been used as animals´ labs there, women got raped, and so on, but we havent seen any trail for the Ýsraeli PM or president or anyone for that matter !

 

Of course they are war crimes in Darfur, when innocent people got killed and  they werent part of any fight, when they forced to leave their homes and lands, when they are killed or tortured, all of that are war crimes.

And its a shame too.

 

But who´s to blame ?!

El Bashir, Sudan , Sudanese army, powers who gave weapons to Darfur rebellious to fight their government and cant keep their hands off other people´s lands specially when loaded with oil, and even more Uranium ?!

 

El Bashir  defending his country and nothing to be blamed about that, unless you are in favore of dividing your own country to everyone who want piece of the land and make himself governor!

 

To me, all are equal, Muslims or non Muslims, if they want part of my land, if anyone want to divide my land they should think again !

And i guess im not the only one thinking like that , am i ?!

 

But war crimes are STÝLL war crimes, even war should have ethics!

 

Ýnnocent people died and suffered, and someone must pay for that

Ýn Darfur case those who made those crimes should go to court and be punished for their crimes, but if we are accepting this as a concept, then we shouldnt only be talking about Sudan or just Sudanese generals !

What for ?!

What happened in Palestine was even way back before Darfur, but still no one condemn anyone of anything !

And they were / are also war crimes !

Why not Sharoon for example, and as you may know he is one of many !

 

You are comparing them together, then you must also have a good answer for that !

Do you ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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