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Women cannot marry men they want
(262 Messages in 27 pages - View all)
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190.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 07:34 pm

 I think you have it si++

Education is the answer...when certain actions become socially unacceptable, when people are ashamed of their actions, when they are ostracized by their community, then they stop. Thus it would seem consciousness raising is the key.

Quoting si++

 

 I don´t see any solution to this problem in the near future, unfortunately. I think education would help but we should see many generations come and go.

 

How can you change the mentality from today to tomorrow? They see these girls something (a slave actually) to be sold. How many children would you yourself like to have? 2/3/4? These guys have more than 10 usually. I heard of a guy with 39 children from different wives. They are so shameless that they even apply to the State to demand poverty aid. They don´t work at all. They force their children do all the work (including begging in streets, collecting stuff from dust bins etc). The girls have no chance to get any education usually (why need such an effort since they are to be sold when they are 12 or above).

 

 

 



Edited (10/8/2010) by alameda [sp]

191.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 08:00 pm

I agree with you, however to the contrary lemon....it is in response to post # 42 in this thread....which had nothing to do with the thread, but was brought in....

......and again I reiterate....nobody should be forced into marriage. However, seeing as bride age has been brought in, It was also to show the age of consent has varied throughout time, and location.

It would be hard for me to imagine a young girl loving an old man, and I do know Romeo and Juliette would have been considered children today. Then, we have the cases of Celine Dion, who married a much older man, and seems to deeply love him. Sophia Loren who married Carlo Ponti when she was 15 and he was 37. Not all Spring Fall marriages are forced disasters.

Do you think young people who are in love should not be allowed to marry?

Quoting lemon

 Do we need this information, Alameda? What for? How do this help or ease the problem of todays children being forced into marriages?

Alameda, unfortunately, you still keep resorting to your old tricks - throw the ball into the neighour´s court - diverting attention from the real topic.

 

 

 



Edited (10/8/2010) by alameda [add]
Edited (10/8/2010) by alameda [sp]

192.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 08:59 pm

lol - which quote was out of context? Which proved you to be of an opinion different from what you said? All quotes presented you as being in favour of arranged marriages. You´ve confirmed it numerous times later on. What is the manipulation then? Context is easy to find, I gave link to your posts - anyone can check the context.

I agree with Lemon, you´re using old tricks, that people unable to think for themselves will fall for - not my problem. You know if you start shouting FIRE and ran out in the street, a few people will start shouting the same, just because it´s what we call in Polish a herd effect (sorry, don´t know the English term for that). It means you don´t think, you act following others from your herd. 

Age of consent would show 99% of royalties in Europe paedophiles? Sure! And in many cases it would be considered incest according to the law today! Does that change the fact about Mohamet The Murdering Face? Nope. Does it justify girls being married at 9? Nope again. So, what was the point you were trying to make in that particular post?

Should we forbid a girl of 15 to marry a 37 year old guy even if she loves him? Sure. Once she reaches the legal age it´s up to her what to do. Remember that Dutch party of paedophiles who wanted to legalise sex with 13 year olds? They didn´t get very popular in Europe.

193.       oeince
582 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:05 pm

Lemon, until alameda was forced to join the discussion, i was assessing the early and forced marriages problem from my point of view and i was saying that the main problem is;

1. feudal structure of the region

2. non-caring selectives of the region

Thats the way i always am. I always focus on the main question and solutions. Noone in that site can say you attacked me. However, you supposed not to find it odd to use the defence right when someone is being attacked. Beacuse me and many people like me are not shalterless to use their defencing rights. That defence is rather a duty regarding justice. Because after an attack is made, the main question turns to be save the victim and punish the attacker. If justice gets destroyed, everything else gets destroyed afterwarths.

If it wasn´t like that, someone else would focus on barba mamas constructive posts in the middle of the burning posts.



Edited (10/8/2010) by oeince

194.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:06 pm

I wonder why the legal age of consent is lower for girls than for boys... Shouldn´t men and women be equal in the eyes of the law?

195.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:22 pm

 Barba,

It is probably because when they become men and women differs a great deal.

Where you are do girls and boys mature at the same rate? Here I regularly see 13 & 14 year old girls who can pass for 21, but very few boys who look like anything but a child.

 

Quoting barba_mama

I wonder why the legal age of consent is lower for girls than for boys... Shouldn´t men and women be equal in the eyes of the law?

 

 



Edited (10/8/2010) by alameda [add]

196.       oeince
582 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:24 pm

Quote: lemon

Im on this site since 2006 and I havent seen many Turkish female members here. As if they got no voice.

 

Isn´t it? Just like non Turkish males



Edited (10/8/2010) by oeince

197.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:25 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 Barba,

I guess maybe where you are girls and boys mature at the same rate? Here I regularly see 13 & 14 year old girls who can pass for 21, but very few boys who look like anything but a child.

 

 

 

True, but aging is not something that is the same for everybody, so the law does not need to consider this difference. There are boys of 16 who are almost adults, and some look like they are 12. The law shouldn´t say "people who are mentally mature" or something. The law is the law, and shouldn´t be gender-equal if the goverment states that men and women are equal. Turkey has signed many agreements on banning gender discrimination in the law, and making men and women legally equal. In my opinion, they should also change this law accordingly.

 

198.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:35 pm

I don´t think it´s the problem of the representatives of the region only, after all, Turkey is not a federation, is it? Laws should be applied the same way all over the country, and I know they are the same. So the problem is not in the law, as Turkish one states clearly what the legal age is. The problem is application. Like I said, I´d blame poverty, religion and lack of education.

East is poorer than the west in Turkey, poverty often breeds pathology. If women are not able to make a living themselves, they´ll always be dependent on men. And it´s a one way road to discrimination, forced marriages and honour killings, as men know their position in the society is higher.

It is very hard to change people´s minds and tell them their traditions are bad. Especially hard when they get nothing in return

199.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 09:44 pm

 On the contrary, the law should consider all the issues. I think it was covered in your statement....men and women. When girls are considered to be women and boys are considered men they aquire different rights and responsibilities.

As for the aging thing, of course, some people are old at 40 others young at 70...or more. However, certain biological milestones are passed and an average of what those are are use as a guide.

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

True, but aging is not something that is the same for everybody, so the law does not need to consider this difference. There are boys of 16 who are almost adults, and some look like they are 12. The law shouldn´t say "people who are mentally mature" or something. The law is the law, and shouldn´t be gender-equal if the goverment states that men and women are equal. Turkey has signed many agreements on banning gender discrimination in the law, and making men and women legally equal. In my opinion, they should also change this law accordingly.

 

 

 

200.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 08 Oct 2010 Fri 10:38 pm

What different rights and responsibilities do you mean? I thought we all have the same rights and responsibilities, regardless of gender

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