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Absurd news from the Globe
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350.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:05 pm

For some reasons my posts change again...oh well. It is clear that people jumped on my back the moment I said I have a different view of the history of Islam. Not just you, but others as well. I never said that what others believe is wrong, but people were very fast to tell me that I was wrong. That is attacking.

Another interesting article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/01/what-is-the-koran/4024/



Edited (6/11/2012) by barba_mama

351.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:11 pm

YES !

 

Salman Rushdi ?

352.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:14 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

YES !

Salman Rushdi ?

 

No, an expert in historical restoration of ancient texts at a German university, who has gone into hiding because of death threads, and some other experts as well. If you had read the articles I posted you would know this. Like I said, read before you comment. But you´re not attacking me, right?

353.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:20 pm

 

Yes, I think Barba is right when i do self critisim , we all attacking and accusing eachother in different ways to showing off of our SELF. Personally, Sorry Barba.

 

354.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:27 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

No, an expert in historical restoration of ancient texts at a German university, who has gone into hiding because of death threads, and some other experts as well. If you had read the articles I posted you would know this. Like I said, read before you comment. But you´re not attacking me, right?

 

No attacks from me barba, never !

Yet, I would suggest you forget about the dear old German Professor in hiding and read up the books of million other scholars who claim Quran is not changed from what was originally recited by the Prophet.

For one thing, you will not sound as provocative...hence, will have less reason to suspect all living moslems have united to attack you..

{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

355.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:34 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

No attacks from me barba, never !

Yet, I would suggest you forget about the dear old German Professor in hiding and read up the books of million other scholars who claim Quran is not changed from what was originally recited by the Prophet.

For one thing, you will not sound as provocative...hence, will have less reason to suspect all living moslems have united to attack you..

{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

 

My problem with this whole discussion is this... I literally said "you believe that because of your religion. I believe otherwise" and " each their own" and the reaction I got was "barba_mama, I have a slight problem with this attitude of yours that you know and our muslim members just believe because they have been programmed to do so." Excuse me, I never used the word know.

I defended myself, stating I never told anybody that they are stupid. And the reaction I get is "do more research" ... what? I am not sayig the muslims attack me. For some reason it is mostly muslims that respect my views on Islam and it´s history, because I never use words like "I know" and "this is a fact." I am not going to change my views as to not sound to "provocative" towards muslims. We´re not in Iran or something...

I should be able to share my views, when people ask for it. When I do, I shouldn´t be "taught" by others why I am wrong, when I base my views on sound research. People don´t have to agree with me, but reacting as if I´m unknowledgable is disrespectful. ...and I don´t drink beer

356.       Abla
3648 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 02:41 pm

Whether Qur´an has changed on the way or not is not a question of belief. An absolute truth exists over there somewhere, maybe it has been discovered maybe not.

 

What is a question of belief is whether it is a revelation from God or not.

357.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 11 Jun 2012 Mon 03:02 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Whether Qur´an has changed on the way or not is not a question of belief. An absolute truth exists over there somewhere, maybe it has been discovered maybe not.

 

What is a question of belief is whether it is a revelation from God or not.

 

Please notice that validity of revelations in Quran will not be significant at all, if it is once  established or generally believed that it may contain changes from God´s genuine messages. The two issues are closely and meaningfully dependant on each other.

barba_mama liked this message
358.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 01:13 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

Please notice that validity of revelations in Quran will not be significant at all, if it is once established or generally believed that it may contain changes from God´s genuine messages. The two issues are closely and meaningfully dependant on each other.

 

True. Whereas books like the bible are written by men, and acknowledged that they are written by men, the quran is a whole other story. That is why people who research the possibility of changes in the quran have to go into hiding or just keep their mouth shut. There is always some crazy psycho who is ready for a death thread the moment somebody raises the possibility that the quran has changed through time, and thus was written (or changed) by men. I think the problem lies mostly with the people who are so strict in the quran, that they force others to follow the quran letter by letter as well. The moment the quran is not the direct word of god, these people lose their credit.

 

ANYWAY... wasn´t this an "absurd news from the globe" thread? I have a new topic. A man in the U.S. caught another man sexually abusing his 4 year old daughter. In the rage he started beating on the man´s head, who died on the spot. Afterwards he said he didn´t know the man would die, ad this was not his intention. Makes you think... Probably any sane person would react in the same way.

 

359.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 09:18 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

True. Whereas books like the bible are written by men, and acknowledged that they are written by men, the quran is a whole other story. That is why people who research the possibility of changes in the quran have to go into hiding or just keep their mouth shut. There is always some crazy psycho who is ready for a death thread the moment somebody raises the possibility that the quran has changed through time, and thus was written (or changed) by men. I think the problem lies mostly with the people who are so strict in the quran, that they force others to follow the quran letter by letter as well. The moment the quran is not the direct word of god, these people lose their credit.

 

ANYWAY... wasn´t this an "absurd news from the globe" thread? I have a new topic. A man in the U.S. caught another man sexually abusing his 4 year old daughter. In the rage he started beating on the man´s head, who died on the spot. Afterwards he said he didn´t know the man would die, ad this was not his intention. Makes you think... Probably any sane person would react in the same way.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbuH0yWJ8ec  I am just kidding.

Barba if you are interested in theology, maybe you can read about numeric symetry in Quran. And if a change occured there would be no such a symetry.

 

360.       catwoman
8933 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 09:33 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

Barba if you are interested in theology, maybe you can read about numeric symetry in Quran. And if a change occured there would be no such a symetry.

 

 

Is it possible that there was originally no symmetry and after the change there appeared a symmetry? Or that there was a different numerical symmetry originally? What kind of proof is this?

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