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a bit confused
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| 1. |
10 Nov 2005 Thu 11:22 pm |
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Hi
Can I have some help here please.
They explained in the book that "ile" can be used instead of "ve" and they gave an example[1]: Doktor ile hemşire.
then they explained that you can omit the "i" and add the "le" as a suffix and gave an example[2]: Doktorla hemşire.
All is fine till they gave the following example[3]: Doktor hemşıreyle beraberdır.(The doctor is together with the nurse). Why not Doktorla hemşıre beraberdır. or hemşıreyle doktor beraberdir.
Or why the second example [2]was not like this: Doktor hemşireyle.
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| 2. |
11 Nov 2005 Fri 10:52 am |
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Quoting bab:
They explained in the book that "ile" can be used instead of "ve" and they gave an example[1]: Doktor ile hemşire.
then they explained that you can omit the "i" and add the "le" as a suffix and gave an example[2]: Doktorla hemşire.
All is fine till they gave the following example[3]: Doktor hemşıreyle beraberdır.(The doctor is together with the nurse). Why not Doktorla hemşıre beraberdır. or hemşıreyle doktor beraberdir.
Or why the second example [2]was not like this: Doktor hemşireyle. |
I studied this as well last week, but the examples you give are a bit more complicated indeed.. So this will be some kind of wild guess.
I would think it doesn't really matter too much? Maybe the stress changes when you put the -le/-la to the first or the second word? But I would think that that is about all..
Would someone please be so kind to help us out?
Tesekkürler
Elisa 
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| 3. |
11 Nov 2005 Fri 11:58 am |
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Quoting bab:
They explained in the book that "ile" can be used instead of "ve" and they gave an example[1]: Doktor ile hemşire.
then they explained that you can omit the "i" and add the "le" as a suffix and gave an example[2]: Doktorla hemşire.
All is fine till they gave the following example[3]: Doktor hemşıreyle beraberdır.(The doctor is together with the nurse). Why not Doktorla hemşıre beraberdır. or hemşıreyle doktor beraberdir.
Or why the second example [2]was not like this: Doktor hemşireyle. |
Kadir was so kind to send me this explanation:
Quote: hemşire ile = hemşire(y)le = with the nurse
doktor ile = doktorla = with the doctor
The doctor is together with the nurse = Doktor hemşireyle beraber(dir) -birlikte(dir)-
The nurse is together with the doctor = Hemşire doktorla bereber(dir) -birlikte(dir)-
if the last letter ot the word is vowel (a, e, ı, i, o, ö, u, ü) you use "y" when you unit the main word and ile :
masa ile = masa(y)la
silgi ile = silgi(y)le
birleşme ile = birleşme(y)le
ütü ile = ütü(y)le |
I think it only makes a diffence when you want to stress that the doctor is together with the nurse and not another doctor for example. "Doktor doktorla beraber(dir) mi?" "Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber!"
I think that otherwise it is not that important with which noun you put -ile/-le/-la?
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| 4. |
11 Nov 2005 Fri 02:10 pm |
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Quote: elesa
I think it only makes a diffence when you want to stress that the doctor is together with the nurse and not another doctor for example. "Doktor doktorla beraber(dir) mi?" "Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber!"
I think that otherwise it is not that important with which noun you put -ile/-le/-la?
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Thanks for your reply, kadir's info are already explained in the book, it is the issue of the second noun taking the suffix le/la instead of the first one that is bugging me.
Your explanation might be true but still to be confirmed, and shouldn't the bold sentence in your quote be Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber degildir.?
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| 5. |
11 Nov 2005 Fri 02:32 pm |
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Quoting bab: Quote: elesa
I think it only makes a diffence when you want to stress that the doctor is together with the nurse and not another doctor for example. "Doktor doktorla beraber(dir) mi?" "Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber!"
I think that otherwise it is not that important with which noun you put -ile/-le/-la?
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Thanks for your reply, kadir's info are already explained in the book, it is the issue of the second noun taking the suffix le/la instead the first one that is bugging me.
Your explanation might be true but still be confirmed, and shouldn't the bold sentence in your quote be Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber degildir.? |
I don't think so. I would think that you could use the following as a negative reply to the example I gave: "Doktor doktorla beraber degil."
Haydi, who will give us a definite answer please!!? It would be so much appreciated. 
Elisa
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| 6. |
11 Nov 2005 Fri 05:16 pm |
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Quoting Elisa
Haydi, who will give us a definite answer please!!? It would be so much appreciated. [/QUOTE:
According to the example you gave, you are right.
bab asked:
"shouldn't the bold sentence in your quote be Hayir, doktor hemsireyle beraber degildir.?"
İf we asked: "is the doctor together with the nurse", yours would be true.
-Doktor, hemşireyle beraber midir?
-Hayır, doktor hemşireyle beraber değildir.
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| 7. |
12 Nov 2005 Sat 02:45 am |
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When you double click on ile you will see that it has many meanings. The main translation would be 'with'. Less common translations of 'ile' will be 'together with' and 'and'. Depending on the context ile can mean any of theses three.
If 'ile' means 'and', almost anytime it needs to be in the middle. If it is not in the middle of the connected words it means 'with' or a version of with (for instance "by").
[doktor ile hemşire = doktorla hemşire] > 'and'
[doktor hemşire ile = doktor hemşireyle] > 'with', 'together with'
[hemşire doktor ile = hemşire doktorla] > 'with', 'together with'
Example:
1. "Doktor ile hemşire gittiler." (or "Doktorla hemşire gittiler.") means "The doctor and the nurse have gone."
2. Doktor hemşireyle gitti. > The doctor has gone with the nurse.
3. Hemşire doktorla gitti. > The nurse has gone with the doctor.
On the first sentence the subject is "doktor ile hemşire", on the second, "doktor", on the third, "hemşire". It is a good idea to put the subject always at the beginning to prevent misunderstandings.
Since on the first sentence the subject is plural, using the verb as plural will be correct. In daily life people might say:
4. "Doktorla hemşire gitti."
(The doctor and the nurse have gone.)
This will have the same meaning as number one but not as clear.
On number three, if I move the subject to the middle the meaning will change as it equals to number four.
In other words, although number three and number four have the same words with same suffixes, they are arranged in a different order which makes the difference.
Said that, may I add that the number four can have also the following meaining if the word "hemşire" is stressed.
4. "Doktorla hemşire gitti."
"It was the nurse (and not somebody else) who went with the doctor."
But this usage is not so common.
By the way, the main translation for 'and' is 've' so in some cases translating 'and' as 'ile' will be incorrect.
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| 8. |
12 Nov 2005 Sat 12:39 pm |
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Thanks a lot for your explanation!
Elisa
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