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Negative and question in verbs?
1.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:12 pm

How do I do that? I mean how do I make a verb negative in a question. With nouns I know (değil + personal suffix) but with verbs?

E.g. how do I say: you do not come? (only present time yet please!) or: we do not like fish?

2.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:20 pm

Quoting Trudy:

How do I do that? I mean how do I make a verb negative in a question. With nouns I know (değil + personal suffix) but with verbs?

E.g. how do I say: you do not come? (only present time yet please!) or: we do not like fish?



you do not come?
gel+me+z mi+sin?(verb+negative suffix+tense questin+personal)

*gramatically we seperate question suffix from verb as you know
* http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/aoristneg.htm
here it has some more details...


we do not like fish?
balık sev+me+z mi+yiz?

as you asked present tense... here you go...

3.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:31 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting Trudy:

How do I do that? I mean how do I make a verb negative in a question. With nouns I know (değil + personal suffix) but with verbs?

E.g. how do I say: you do not come? (only present time yet please!) or: we do not like fish?



you do not come?
gel+me+z mi+sin?(verb+negative suffix+tense questin+personal)

*gramatically we seperate question suffix from verb as you know
* http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/aoristneg.htm
here it has some more details...


we do not like fish?
balık sev+me+z mi+yiz?

as you asked present tense... here you go...



Thanks Sui, but a question: why the 'z'? The 'me' after the verb root (and I assume I have to follow also here the vocal harmony?) and then the 'mi / mı / mu / mü' plus personal suffix I get. But that z?

4.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:38 pm

definetely i was expecting this question and thinking how to explain...

its some case like irregular verbs as it is in english

you know the present tense suffix -(a,e,ı,i,o,ö,u,ü)r

changes into "z" in 2. and 3. single and plural and 1. plural persons
in the first single persons you even dont use "z" too

here an example

gel+me+m mi? i do not come?
gel+me+z mi+sin? you do not come?
gel+me+z mi? he/she does not come?
gel+me+z mi+yiz? we do not come?
gel+me+z mi+siniz? you do not come?
gel+me+z+ler mi? they do not come?


and yes "me" after verb changes according to vovel harmony... it is a bit complicated i guess... maybe you can find some more information in the link i gave.

5.       aslan2
507 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:43 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:


gel+me+m mi? i do not come?
gel+me+z mi+sin? you do not come?
gel+me+z mi? he/she does not come?
gel+me+z mi+yiz? we do not come?
gel+me+z mi+siniz? you do not come?
gel+me+z+ler mi? they do not come?


"gel-me-z mi-yim?" is also possible.

6.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:46 pm

Thanks Sui, your explanation makes it more clear (though I feel a bit stupid with my questions when I see the simple answers... ) I still have 2 other ones: in your example you add a z also to 'we' but on that link you gave me they sau that 'I' and 'we' don't get one. And if I see correct the personal suffix is placed after the mi (question word) except in first singular, then after the negative with plain mi? Correct?

7.       aslan2
507 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:48 pm

Quoting Trudy:


Thanks Sui, but a question: why the 'z'? The 'me' after the verb root (and I assume I have to follow also here the vocal harmony?) and then the 'mi / mı / mu / mü' plus personal suffix I get. But that z?



That's an interesting question. Google for "r-Turkic" and "z-Turkic" if you're curious.

8.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:51 pm

aslan2 shown that

for the first person gel+me+z mi+yim
also possible and more gramatical



-in the link i gave that case which is "I" and "We" dont take "-z" is for ONLY negatives, in the negative question it may take as you see

9.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 06:55 pm

Quoting aslan2:

Quoting Trudy:


Thanks Sui, but a question: why the 'z'? The 'me' after the verb root (and I assume I have to follow also here the vocal harmony?) and then the 'mi / mı / mu / mü' plus personal suffix I get. But that z?



That's an interesting question. Google for "r-Turkic" and "z-Turkic" if you're curious.


Thanks for this advise Aslan, I did and I got many hits on 'common' Turkish and 'Bolgharic Turkish'. I am not gonna read that, I'm afraid it'll only confuse me. The grammar in English costs me enough to understand because the names for grammar are sometimes completely different from those in my own language.

10.       aslan2
507 posts
 27 Dec 2006 Wed 07:06 pm

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting aslan2:

Quoting Trudy:


Thanks Sui, but a question: why the 'z'? The 'me' after the verb root (and I assume I have to follow also here the vocal harmony?) and then the 'mi / mı / mu / mü' plus personal suffix I get. But that z?



That's an interesting question. Google for "r-Turkic" and "z-Turkic" if you're curious.


Thanks for this advise Aslan, I did and I got many hits on 'common' Turkish and 'Bolgharic Turkish'. I am not gonna read that, I'm afraid it'll only confuse me. The grammar in English costs me enough to understand because the names for grammar are sometimes completely different from those in my own language.


OK. In brief, we speak z-Turkic. So "r" became "z" in some words very very long time ago in z-Turkic (hence z-Turkic).

So:
gel-me-z instead of gel-me-r

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