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Where to add a name
1.       bod
5999 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 06:41 pm

Does it matter which end of a sentence the named subject is placed??? Also is the name included within the enclosing parts of olmak???

For example which of these are correct?

Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.

Sen yaramaz bir köpek Floss'sın.

2.       buss_y
6 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 06:55 pm


Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.


they are correct but they have different meanings..by the way what a pity i cant tell you why they r correct. cos my english isnt good. so wait others answers..

3.       bod
5999 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 07:05 pm

Quoting buss_y:


Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.


they are correct but they have different meanings..by the way what a pity i cant tell you why they r correct. cos my english isnt good. so wait others answers..



Thanks - I am assuming the difference in meaning is subtle as it would be in English. If I am understanding correctly then they would translate to the following:

Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.
Floss, you are a naughty dog.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.
You Floss, are a naughty dog.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.
You are a naughty dog Floss.

There is a difference in English between the above three but very few native speakers would understand that difference unfortunately

4.       Elisa
0 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 07:25 pm

Quoting bod:

Quoting buss_y:


Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.


they are correct but they have different meanings..by the way what a pity i cant tell you why they r correct. cos my english isnt good. so wait others answers..



Thanks - I am assuming the difference in meaning is subtle as it would be in English. If I am understanding correctly then they would translate to the following:

Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.
Floss, you are a naughty dog.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.
You Floss, are a naughty dog.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.
You are a naughty dog Floss.

There is a difference in English between the above three but very few native speakers would understand that difference unfortunately



I'm not a native English speaker, maybe that's why I don't see a diffence between the first and the last example? They'd mean the same to me if there was a comma before Floss in the last sentence.
As for the second one, you stress that it's Floss who is a naughty dog, and not one of the other dogs.
In Turkish, the only difference I could think of is that the middle sentence would have the same meaning as in English (Floss is naughty, but not the other dogs) or "You are Floss, a naughty dog".
As for the first and last, I would think that they have the same meaning?
Someone help please?

5.       bod
5999 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 07:31 pm

In English the first example is transient. Floss is always a dog but not always naughty - she is only naughty at the current time. The second example binds the naughtiness far more to the dog implying that she is naughty all the time and it is unchangable - a bit like being a black dog would be unchangable.

The third example is much the same as the first but far less formal. It would be said almost in joking form.

All three would seperate Floss' naughtiness from that of other dogs because she is explicitly named and the second person form of 'to be' is used.

6.       mltm
3690 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 08:17 pm


Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.
Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin, Floss.

These two are correct and have the same meaning.


Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.
I didn'T like this one, Sen before Floss makes the sentence sound bad. It can be, it's possible but not good.



Sen yaramaz bir köpek Floss'sın.
This is a wrong structured sentence. the verb is being a dog, not being Floss.


7.       erdinc
2151 posts
 08 Dec 2005 Thu 08:26 pm

Quote:

Floss, sen yaramaz bir köpeksin.
Floss, you are a naughty dog.

Sen Floss, yaramaz bir köpeksin.
You Floss, are a naughty dog.

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin Floss.
You are a naughty dog Floss.



I think your translations and understanding fo the sentences are correct. The most common would be the first one, then the third and then the second one.

The first and last sentence are smillar in some ways. The first sentence is more casually and is like saying "Jackie you are a naughty boy" and can be a friend speech.

On the third sentence, which is close to number one, there is more stress on yaramaz (naugthy) I think.

The second sentence shows more annoyance and a little more anger. Its like you are pointing your finger and speaking slowly but seriously.

I would use the first one.

8.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Dec 2005 Fri 03:17 am

Thanks people

To take this slightly further, is it possible to generalise the statement to either of these:

Bu yaramaz bir köpek
"This is a naughty dog"

Bu köpek yaramaz
"This dog is naughty"

Are both the above correct in Turkish and do they have the same subtle difference in meaning that they do in English?

9.       cyrano
0 posts
 09 Dec 2005 Fri 03:27 am

Well done, bod! Both are correct and have the same situation in English.

10.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Dec 2005 Fri 04:28 am

Quoting cyrano:

Well done, bod! Both are correct and have the same situation in English.



YaY!!!
Thank you

So can we apply the same elsewhere???

If in the "this" tense we can have both:
Bu yaramaz bir köpek
Bu köpek yaramaz


Can we apply the same to first and second person in Turkish???
Do these all make sense?
Ben yaramaz bir köpekim
Ben köpek yaramazım

Sen yaramaz bir köpeksin
Sen köpek yaramazın

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