A while ago there were some posts about expressing 'when' in Turkish
( http://www.turkishclass.com/sfa/turkce/forumTitle_6_15200_2 )


Markete gittiğim zaman - Markete gittiğimde = When I go/went to the market.

Both of those can be used for present and past tense.


Markete gideceğim zaman - Markete gideceğimde = when I will go to the market.

Some people thought that this can be used for future tense usage. However, someone corrected this and said that, even for future usage, the first form should be used.

I'm confused now. I know several sources that talk about a 'Future participle' (http://turkishlanguage.co.uk/objectpart.htm ; http://www.practicalturkish.com/difficulties-of-turkish--expressing-yourself.html )

Can someone tell me why it should/shouldn't be used then?

Subject Line: Future Participle

Dunno where it went to..

You know, just like in the reduced forms of the subordinate clauses in english (e.g.'knowing the fact"), normally there is no tense concept in those of turkish rendered with the suffix "-dik" and the locative "-de" either; in other words, the tense concept gets vanished in such Turkish clauses. In this respect, the difference between:

"When I had gone to there" and "When I went to there"

cannot be rendered in Turkish. (One exception is in the turkish clauses future tense rendered with zaman.)

In the subordinate clauses the suffix "-dik", together with the locative "-de", is used with the past, present and/or future tense in the main clauses in turkish. Thus if the tense in the main clause is :

* the past tense, the tense in the subordinate clause refers to the past as well.

Gittiğinde, ağladım.
When you left, I cried.

* the present tense, it refers to the present as well.

Gittiğinde, ağlarım.
When you leave, I cry.

* the future tense, it still refers to the present.

Gittiğinde, ağlayacağım.
When you leave, I will cry.

On the other hand, as you know, in some cases "when" can perfectly replaced with the conditional "if", which is true with the last example:

Gidersen, ağlayacağım.
If you leave, I will cry.

Still there are some cases indicating that something (or two actions) will happen in the future, depending on no condition at all, like the following:

Markete gideceğin zaman, marketi bombalayacağım.
When you will go to the market, I will bomb the market.

Unlike "I will cry" in the previous example, here "bombing the market" is out of any condition, and possibly formerly determined. "You will go to the market, and I know that formerly, and I will bomb it."

Another example:

Öleceğim zaman, meleklere gülümseyeceğim.
When I will die, I will smile at the angels.

"Smiling at the angels" is out of any condition, and perfectly determined formerly. "One day I will die, and certainly smile at the angels."

(The last example, of course, can be stated like this:

Öldüğümde or Ölünce, meleklere gülümseyeceğim.)

But you can't replace the construction future tense + zaman with the conditional "if", like you could do in other types of the clauses. So, you can use the construction future tense + zaman" in a subordinate clause if the two things/actions in question will happen in the future and don't depend on each other.

Well, the final decisions are:

1. Though quite rare, future tense can be used in a subordibate clause only if it is rendered with "zaman". (e.g. Gideceğim zaman....)

2. The future tense cannot be rendered with the locative "de". (e.g. Gideceğimde.)

3. There is no tense concept in a subordinate clause formed with the suffixes "dik" and "de/da", and such kind of clause can refer to either past or present.

4. The Clause "Future tense + zaman" can always be replaced, where possible, with other tpyes of the clauses. (e.g. 'Markete gittiğinde" and 'Markete gideceğin zaman".)

oh, thank you so much panta rei and elisa! i understand it too now.