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Participle/verbal noun - check please?
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| 1. |
15 May 2007 Tue 06:03 pm |
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Could someone tell me which sentence in the following pairs of sentences is the correct one, and why? I have a slight idea myself, but it confuses me as well sometimes, so I'd like to hear it from someone else.
* Tansu'nun buraya gelmesini söyledim
Tansu'nun buraya geldiğini söyledim
* Ali'nin sokakta oynamasını beğenmiyorum
Ali'nin sokakta oynadığını beğenmiyorum
* Sizin başarılı olmanızı dilerim
Sizin başarılı olmadığınızı dilerim
* Trenin birazdan gelmesini bekliyorum
Trenin birazdan geldiğini bekliyorum
Thanks 
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| 2. |
15 May 2007 Tue 07:04 pm |
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The first ones are, of course, both correct and meaningful. The second ones of the first two pairs, however, would depend on what you really want to say. The second sentence of the third pair is grammatically correct, but just with the verb "dilerim" makes no sense. And again, in the second one of the last pair, the word "birazdan" together with the verb "beklemek" ruins the meaning.
Quoting Elisa:
* Tansu'nun buraya gelmesini söyledim
Tansu'nun buraya geldiğini söyledim |
The second one means "I told that Tansu came here." while the first one, "I told (someone) that Tansu come here."
So which one is correct depends totally on what you want to say.
Quoting Elisa:
* Ali'nin sokakta oynamasını beğenmiyorum
Ali'nin sokakta oynadığını beğenmiyorum |
The above case is true with these as well.
The first one means:
Ali plays (games) in the street, which I don't like.
And the second one:
I don't like what Ali is playing in the street.
(Namely, you might have liked, if Ali played, say, another game.)
So, the first one emphasizes on "Ali's playing games in street", and the second, on "what Ali plays in the street."
Quoting Elisa:
* Sizin başarılı olmanızı dilerim
Sizin başarılı olmadığınızı dilerim |
You wouldn't wish someone not to have been successful, would you? Or, even if you wish, you wouldn't express this directly to the person in question, would you?
I mean, the verb "dilemek" ruins the meaning, the second sentence however is grammatically correct. Take the following example:
Sizin başarılı olmadığınızı biliyorum.
I know that you haven't been (or aren't) successful.
Quoting Elisa:
* Trenin birazdan gelmesini bekliyorum
Trenin birazdan geldiğini bekliyorum |
biazdan: This words, as you know, refers to "future".
geldiğini: In above usage, refers to "past".
bekliyorum: refers to the "present".
You could say the followings:
Tren birazdan gelir diye bekliyorum.
Trenin birazdan geleceğini biliyorum.
But these are completely different than the first one.
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| 3. |
15 May 2007 Tue 08:23 pm |
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Quoting panta rei: The second sentence of the third pair is grammatically correct, but just with the verb 'dilerim' makes no sense. |
Quoting Elisa:
* Sizin başarılı olmanızı dilerim
Sizin başarılı olmadığınızı dilerim |
That's because I made a typo there, it should have been 'olduğunuzu'  Still, even then it sounds a bit artificial, doesn't it? It would be better to replace 'dilerim' with 'umarım' for example, wouldn't it?
Quoting panta rei: And again, in the second one of the last pair, the word 'birazdan' together with the verb 'beklemek' ruins the meaning. |
Quoting Elisa:
* Trenin birazdan gelmesini bekliyorum
Trenin birazdan geldiğini bekliyorum |
What about "Trenin hemen (şimdi) geldiğini bekledim" ?
Anyway, the first sentence of every couple were examples from my grammar book to show were -mesi- should be used instead of -dik-
I added the second ones myself to see the difference in meaning because sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees  
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| 4. |
15 May 2007 Tue 08:37 pm |
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Quoting Elisa: It would be better to replace 'dilerim' with 'umarım' for example, wouldn't it? |
Exactly!
Sizin başarılı olduğunuzu umarım/umuyorum.
Quoting Elisa:
What about "Trenin hemen (şimdi) geldiğini bekledim" ?
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Nope! What do you mean by that?
Maybe Trenin hemen/şimdi gelmesini bekliyorum?
Or maybe Trenin az önce gelmesini bekledim.?
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| 5. |
15 May 2007 Tue 08:58 pm |
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Quoting panta rei:
Nope! What do you mean by that? |
I call for a cease-fire in the conflict between participles, verbal nouns and myself until I have further investigated the situation 
Thanks a million for your help Panta Rei 
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| 6. |
17 May 2007 Thu 01:51 am |
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Sizin bas¸ar?l? oldugunuzu umar?m/umuyorum.
How about:
Sizin bas¸ar?l? olmaye umar?m/umuyorum.
Does that work like the other examples?
"That you become successful I hope"?
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