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grammar question
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| 1. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 10:00 am |
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In translating this english sentence:
Dont let him put either the cheese or the sugar into that box!
this is my trans: O kutuda ne peyniri ne da sekeri koymasin.
This is the book's answer:
O kutuya ne peyniri koysun ne sekeri.
From my mistakes can someone explain to me....
1st ques: Why isnt it 'koymasin' instead of koysun?
2nd ques: Why isnt it 'kutuda' instead of kutuya?
3rd ques: Why does the action verb go between the ne's?
4th ques: Is it wrong to add 'da' (also) and why?
Thank you for anyone's help. 
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| 2. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 10:06 am |
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Quoting TeresaJana: In translating this english sentence:
Dont let him put either the cheese or the sugar into that box!
this is my trans: O kutuda ne peyniri ne da sekeri koymasin.
This is the book's answer:
O kutuya ne peyniri koysun ne sekeri.
From my mistakes can someone explain to me....
1st ques: Why isnt it 'koymasin' instead of koysun?
2nd ques: Why isnt it 'kutuda' instead of kutuya?
3rd ques: Why does the action verb go between the ne's?
4th ques: Is it wrong to add 'da' (also) and why?
Thank you for anyone's help.
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1)
ne ... ne ... is negative itself. so verb doesn't need extra negative
2)
koymak is used with -a case suffix
3)
it's not a strict rule. other combos are possible
o kutuya ne peyniri ne şekeri koysun is also OK
4)
no.
o kutuya ne peyniri ne DE şekeri koysun or
o kuyuya ne peyniri koysun ne DE şekeri
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| 3. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 10:30 am |
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Thank you kingly. So.. the verb is positive then if ne...ne appears. ??
and da changes to de for vowel harmony. does ne ever change to na?
and putting something in (into) something the 'to' ablative is used in this case of koymak always?
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| 4. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 11:51 am |
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Quoting TeresaJana: does ne ever change to na? |
No, it's doesn't.
Quoting TeresaJana: and putting something in (into) something the 'to' ablative is used in this case of koymak always? |
Yes. Eg. "sütü buzdolabına koy" - put the milk in the fridge
Have a look at the dictionary here for other meanings and cases though. To me they're not all that clear..
Could someone give an example of a sentence where koymak with /-i/ is used? 
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| 5. |
18 Jun 2007 Mon 07:59 am |
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Quoting TeresaJana: Thank you kingly. So.. the verb is positive then if ne...ne appears. ??
and da changes to de for vowel harmony. does ne ever change to na?
and putting something in (into) something the 'to' ablative is used in this case of koymak always? |
Verb doesn't need to be negative but can be negative in some cases with the same meaning.
the following have the same meaning:
o kutuya ne peyniri ne DE şekeri koysun
o kutuya ne peyniri ne DE şekeri koymasın
But for the following negative verb doesn't sound good.
o kutuya ne peyniri koysun ne DE şekeri
o kutuya ne peyniri koymasın ne DE şekeri
I'd prefer the affirmative ones.
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| 6. |
18 Jun 2007 Mon 09:03 am |
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I think I get it. In english we say "DONT put" either this or that
and turkish its "Put" NEITHER this NOR that.
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| 7. |
18 Jun 2007 Mon 08:09 pm |
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Quoting si++:
Verb doesn't need be negative but can be negative in some cases with the same meaning. |
Not "verb doesn't need be", but it just can't be negative when used the correlative conjunction "ne...ne (de)". In this respect, it is the same as the english "neither..nor".
Quoting si++:
the following have the same meaning:
But for the following negative verb doesn't sound good. |
they haven't the same meaning at all, the second one is wrong. Nor does it sound good.
o kutuya ne peyniri ne DE şekeri koysun
o kutuya ne peyniri ne DE şekeri koy[ma]sın
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| 8. |
19 Jun 2007 Tue 07:20 am |
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Quoting CirqueDuSoleil: Quoting si++:
Verb doesn't need to be negative but can be negative in some cases with the same meaning. |
Not "verb doesn't need to be", but it just can't be negative when used the correlative conjunction "ne...ne (de)". In this respect, it is the same as the english "neither..nor".
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Hmmm. You think so. Not everybody thinks so though.
There are grey areas here.
A quote from Tahir Nejat Gencan whose "dilbilgisi" books were studied in "ortaokul"s.
Quoting Tahir Nejat Gencan:
"ne..ne bağlacı:
a) eşit öğeleri bağlar;
b) cümlenin yüklemine olumsuzluk anlamı kartar. bu yüklemleri şekilce olumsuz yapmaya, çok kere, lüzum kalmaz."
bağlaçla ilgili kuralın ikinci bölümü de şÃ¶yle:
"içinde ne..ne bağlacı bulunan cümlelerde:
a) yüklem uzakta ise;
b) yüklem fiilimsi ise şekilce de olumsuz kullanılır."
tahir nejat gencan'ın verdiği örnek: "ne şarkta, ne garpta devleti hudud-u tabiiyesinin dışına çıkarmadı." (namık kemal)
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Some more examples where negative verb sounds better "fikrimce":
Bugün ne müdür ne de sekreterlerden daha işe gelen olmadı.
Şimdiye kadar ne param ne pulum ne malım ne mülküm olmadı.
Ne param ne pulum hiçbirşeyim yok.
etc.
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| 9. |
19 Jun 2007 Tue 08:15 pm |
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Quoting CirqueDuSoleil: Keep that primary school teacher's claim for your futures studies. Meanwhile start to study Turkish from this page and then shut up! |
Actually that explanation was really good. I've been studying on ne..ne.. bağlacı today so..
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| 10. |
20 Jun 2007 Wed 08:17 am |
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Some more examples where verb is negative
a) verb is distant from ne...ne...
"Benim beğeni alanımda ümit yaşar oğuzcan ne büyük şair, ne iyi şair, ne de umutla bakılacak genç bir şair olarak yer alamıyor." (Mehmet Fuat - "çağını görebilmek", pg. 124)
b) verb is a "fiilimsi" (verbal clause)
adfiil (noun clause)
Ne matematik no fizik ne de kimyayı becerememek okuldan atılmasına sebep oldu.
sıfatfiil (adjective clause)
Ne kemanı ne piyanoyu iyi çalamadığı görünüyor.
zarffiil (adverb clause)
Ne Ali'yi ne Veli'yi bulamayınca bana gelmiş.
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