Language |
|
|
|
|
|
grammar question: yaşamaya...
|
| 1. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 03:06 pm |
|
My grammar book gives the following example:
Yaşamaya çalışıyoruz.
translating to: We work in order to live.
I would have translated into: we are trying to live, like in, for example:
Türkçe'yi öğrenmeye çalışıyorum.
I am trying to learn Turkish.
Am I wrong? Or are both possible translations?
The explanation given by my book was, as an answer to the question: Neye çalışıyorsunuz? you might answer with e-hali state of the noun. Could I have asked: Neden (or niçin) çalışıyorsunuz? Would it be the same? What would the answer be in that case?
|
|
| 2. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 06:11 pm |
|
I don't agree with the book. I'd translate it like you as well.
Neye çalışıyorsunuz? What do you try to do? (or are you trying to do)
Yaşamaya çalışıyoruz. We're trying to live (to survive).
The answer of a question like "Neden çalışıyorsunuz?" would be:
Yaşamak için çalışıyoruz.
We're working (or we work) in order to live.
I think the confusion is "çalışmak" means both "to try" and "to work."
|
|
| 3. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 09:20 pm |
|
Thank you, Meltem.
But I still have a doubt... If the question is, as you wrote: What are you trying to do? Why is it "neye" then? I mean couldn't it be simply "ne"?
And how can I use "neye"? My book writes, that the e-hali state of the noun may indicate a reason referring to the main verb. If so, the question would be "what for?" Could someone give me an example? And is it actually used like this?
|
|
| 4. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 09:24 pm |
|
BTW, which grammar book are you using?
|
|
| 5. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 09:31 pm |
|
I picked up grammar from different books and sites and from what my friends are writing... I have just bought this book to review and systematize, to get it all into the right place... I have started today, it is called: "Grammatik kurz und bündig: Türkisch", by pons edition. Kind of a summary. It is a german book of course as I speak german...
|
|
| 6. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 09:37 pm |
|
I just wanted to check. Turkish is a living language, like all others, and it changes with time.
In the books published in English I see a difference between old books that are just reprinted without being revised, and modern books. I also see a difference between books produced with Turks living in Turkey as authors or editors (these are good) and those produced by Turks who left Turkey 10 or 20 years ago and live in UK or US (these can contain old-fashioned constructs, or things that aren't used much any more, or whose use has changed).
I can't comment on the books in German, though!!!!!!!
|
|
| 7. |
30 Jul 2007 Mon 09:53 pm |
|
Quoting aiça: Thank you, Meltem.
But I still have a doubt... If the question is, as you wrote: What are you trying to do? Why is it "neye" then? I mean couldn't it be simply "ne"?
And how can I use "neye"? My book writes, that the e-hali state of the noun may indicate a reason referring to the main verb. If so, the question would be "what for?" Could someone give me an example? And is it actually used like this? |
"What are you trying to do?" will translate to "Ne yapmaya çalışıyorsun?" This is a good translation, and the turkish language sounds well, the problem is "neye çalışıyorsun" is a correct sentence but it does not sound good, it sounds like an intentionally made sentence which look for the object of the sentence that will be said. In english it correspond to "what are you trying?". It does not sound good where we wait a response with a verb, it would be better to say "what are you trying to do".
According to me the example is not very good because I don't think you will ever hear someone ask you "neye çalışıyorsun" where çalışmak means "to try". I do not even think that there "çalışmak" corresponds to "work" because that "çalışmak" never takes an object.
If the "çalışmak" there was "to study", where mother asks her son studying his book at his desk, it would be very correct if she asked "neye çalışıyorsun" which means "what do you study" because here he will give an answer like "I study maths" where "maths" is the object and a noun.
ı'm not sure if this made it clearer or worse 
|
|
| 8. |
31 Jul 2007 Tue 03:02 am |
|
Quoting aiça: Thank you, Meltem.
But I still have a doubt... If the question is, as you wrote: What are you trying to do? Why is it "neye" then? I mean couldn't it be simply "ne"?
And how can I use "neye"? My book writes, that the e-hali state of the noun may indicate a reason referring to the main verb. If so, the question would be "what for?" Could someone give me an example? And is it actually used like this? |
Meltem explained it very well. I want to add something more to make it clearer.
çalışmak is a verb which has many meanings: to work, to try, and can be also "to study yourself" generally with the word "ders": ders çalışmak
If you use it alone, it probably mean "to work".
But if there is more in your sentence:
1. [verb]+-a/-e çalışmak: try to [verb]/try [verb gerund]
yaşamaya çalışıyorum (y is buffer)
I try to live/I am trying to live
koşmaya çalışıyorum
I am trying running
2. [noun]+-a/-e çalışmak
or
[noun] çalışmak: to study (yourself) [noun]
matematiğe çalışıyorum(=matematik çalışıyorum)
I am studying calculus
Türkçe çalışıyorum(=Türkçeye çalışıyorum)
I am studying Turkish
3. [verb] için çalışmak: to work in order to [verb]
para kazanmak için çalışıyorum
I work in order to earn money
yeni bir araba almak için çalışıyorum
I work in order to buy a new car
4. [noun] için çalışmak: to work for [noun] or to work in the name of [noun]
Büyük bir şirket için çalışıyorum
I work for a big company
I hope that's all.
|
|
| 9. |
01 Aug 2007 Wed 01:07 am |
|
Thank you both Meltem and caliptrix very much! You made it very clear. Actually now I don't think I will use this "neye" in the near future, it seems omittable at my level of Turkish, but it is good to understand, thank you!
|
|
| 10. |
01 Aug 2007 Wed 10:25 pm |
|
Hello,
The book's translation does not sound right. In my opinion, a better translation should be something along the lines of...
We are trying to get by.
We are trying to survive.
When you say 'we are trying to live', it sounds incomplete. If you say 'we are just trying to live our lives in peace', then it becomes complete.
In this case, 'yasamaya calisiyoruz' sounds as if the speaker is of the mind that he is just living his life and trying to get by. Of course, all of this eventually depends on the context.
|
|
|
