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Revenge of islamists!!
(18 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Mar 2008 Fri 05:22 pm

When I was browsing Turkish papers online, I have learnt 3 (actually 7) people were detained early in the morning in Turkey..
-The chief columnist of Cumhuriyet (daily news paper), Ilhan selcuk
-A party leader, Dogu Perincek
-A former İstanbul University rector, Kemal Alemdaroğlu
It is like being in 1970's and 1980's military times..

We should wait and see what happens..
But, the first things come into my mind is that, it is 'what islamists will do when they think they have the power'.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=136930

As a deep note: Ilhan Selcuk is 83 years old and he spends his life between the paper and his house.

2.       catwoman
8933 posts
 21 Mar 2008 Fri 08:01 pm

"Two senior officials of a Turkish political party, a former university rector and the chief columnist of a daily newspaper -- all known for their neo-nationalism and ultra-secularism -- were taken into custody early on Friday morning over alleged links to a criminal network with suspected links to the army and bureaucracy.

The arrests come at a time when allegations have been made that a recent closure case against the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) was filed with the Constitutional Court to prevent further development of the Ergenekon investigation."

3.       KeithL
1455 posts
 21 Mar 2008 Fri 08:11 pm

This is all part of "Deep State"
I'm surprised this topic never gets much interest here.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/turkey/8510435.asp?gid=231&sz=44279

Adam25 liked this message
4.       KeithL
1455 posts
 21 Mar 2008 Fri 08:12 pm

Supposedly, this group's underground action was to lead to a military coup in 2009.

Adam25 liked this message
5.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 03:49 pm

According to some sources, there are 16.000 unsolved murder cases in turkey and 60 billion dollars worth of guns and drugs money yearly.

There are huge number of people, either elected or appointed, who get their wealth from the state.
What is not know is that how that wealth (plus the guns and drug money) is being distributed amongs those people.

It seems to me that the latest incidents, the court case against AKP and the case so called 'ergenekon', are very much related to the sentence I mentioned above.
AKP and islamists are, somehow, trying to say that the court case against them is the result of them going at 'deep state'.

A 'brief explanation' is necessary here I think what 'deep state' in Turkey is:
I think, in 1950, all Nato countries had a secret organisation in their own countries. (Gladio in Italy, counter-guerilla in Turkey etc)
And it is also important to mention that some of the fundings for these organisations came from the CIA (at some stage the entire cost was taken care by the CIA in Turkey!!)
The main purpose of these secret orgnizations were to orgonise the resistance in the case of a communist invation (or stop communists taking the power).
Although those groups were disbanded in western countries (I think in 70s and 80s), but It never happened inTurkey.
And this organisation is deeply burried between MIT (Turkish intelligence) and the army.
And ultra nationalist party, MHP, has also deeply involved since 1960s.
Most of the political assasinations, carried out by right wing/ultra nationalist thugs, have been the work of this organisation.
And, they were the great contibuters for preparing the ground for , almost, all army interventions in Turkish politics.

Anyway..
Basically, the moral of the story is the deep state in Turkey is the Army itself!!

But, it looks like, the fight about controlling the state has gathered momentum: akp vs old ruling class and the deep state(the army).
Can/should in it be considered as a fight between democracy and the old ruling class?
I doubt it personally. It seems to me it is the fight for their shares from the state.

But, I really want the deep state lose this time and be burried into history.

6.       Cacık
296 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 04:00 pm

I must admit, this is scary stuff. What will happen over the next year ???? they are expacting a possible huge economic crash, the dollar could increase from about 1.3 to 1.7 or 1.8 by the end of the year. Can't quote you a link for the source of information, think it was on Siyaset Medyan programme and the regularly every night debates on this issue on tv.

This all makes me rather spooked !

7.       KeithL
1455 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 07:03 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

According to some sources, there are 16.000 unsolved murder cases in turkey and 60 billion dollars worth of guns and drugs money yearly.

There are huge number of people, either elected or appointed, who get their wealth from the state.
What is not know is that how that wealth (plus the guns and drug money) is being distributed amongs those people.

It seems to me that the latest incidents, the court case against AKP and the case so called 'ergenekon', are very much related to the sentence I mentioned above.
AKP and islamists are, somehow, trying to say that the court case against them is the result of them going at 'deep state'.

A 'brief explanation' is necessary here I think what 'deep state' in Turkey is:
I think, in 1950, all Nato countries had a secret organisation in their own countries. (Gladio in Italy, counter-guerilla in Turkey etc)
And it is also important to mention that some of the fundings for these organisations came from the CIA (at some stage the entire cost was taken care by the CIA in Turkey!!)
The main purpose of these secret orgnizations were to orgonise the resistance in the case of a communist invation (or stop communists taking the power).
Although those groups were disbanded in western countries (I think in 70s and 80s), but It never happened inTurkey.
And this organisation is deeply burried between MIT (Turkish intelligence) and the army.
And ultra nationalist party, MHP, has also deeply involved since 1960s.
Most of the political assasinations, carried out by right wing/ultra nationalist thugs, have been the work of this organisation.
And, they were the great contibuters for preparing the ground for , almost, all army interventions in Turkish politics.

Anyway..
Basically, the moral of the story is the deep state in Turkey is the Army itself!!

But, it looks like, the fight about controlling the state has gathered momentum: akp vs old ruling class and the deep state(the army).
Can/should in it be considered as a fight between democracy and the old ruling class?
I doubt it personally. It seems to me it is the fight for their shares from the state.

But, I really want the deep state lose this time and be burried into history.



This is one of the most intelligent posts you have ever contributed. I wish to see more like this!

I agree with almost everything you say. Turkey is still a fragile democracy as democracies go. I totally support and understand the need of "deep state" during the "left-right" struggles within Turkey. A communist government would have set back Turkey 100 years. And now, the threat is an government that is too Islamic. I completely support religion, but not mixed with government. It is important to keep Turkey secular. At some point in time, the armies Kemalist agenda will not be as necessary, but Turkey is not there yet. Another 20 to 30 years of progress, and Turkey will be completely parallel with other European nations. Insallah...

8.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 07:33 pm

Quoting KeithL:


This is one of the most intelligent posts you have ever contributed. I wish to see more like this!

I agree with almost everything you say. Turkey is still a fragile democracy as democracies go. I totally support and understand the need of "deep state" during the "left-right" struggles within Turkey. A communist government would have set back Turkey 100 years. And now, the threat is an government that is too Islamic. I completely support religion, but not mixed with government. It is important to keep Turkey secular. At some point in time, the armies Kemalist agenda will not be as necessary, but Turkey is not there yet. Another 20 to 30 years of progress, and Turkey will be completely parallel with other European nations. Insallah...



Sorry to say this,
But Keith, yours is one of the most unintelligent posts I have ever heard of about Turkish politics and the 'deep state'.

I will be quite happy to argue with you everything what that deep state done into my country.

Deep state is the darkest part of my country.
It is against every single thing I have ever supported in my entire life!!

Supporting the actions of deep state is supporting the killing of Hrant Dink, Abdi Ipekci, Ugur Mumcu and hundreds of other turkish intellects.

Supporting them means supporting the tortures of thousand of innocent people during 1980s and 1970s.

Have you ever accured to you that deep state is the one of the most ever danger and almost the only obsticle to democracy in Turkey?

9.       KeithL
1455 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 07:45 pm

We can disagree of course. The daily violence and murders on the streets of Istanbul during th 70's, the military had to step in. I don't support the communists in any way what so ever, even if it means losing blood to keep them out of power.
I do not support the murder of Hrant Dink or any intellectuals. And if there is a deep state still to this day in Turkey, I don't think it is necessary.
But I do support the military if the AK Parti tries to make Turkey less secular.

10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Mar 2008 Sat 07:52 pm

Do you know anything about how many people got killed by the racists thugs, supported by the deep state, during 1970s?

how many intellects, how many professors? how many youngsters?

Have you ever read or listened stories about tortured young people?

When I said, deep state prepared the grounds for the army interventions, what did you understand really?

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