Turkish Politics |
|
|
|
|
|
Turkey orders trial of ruling party
|
| 10. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 09:43 pm |
|
Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting KeithL: Based on the constitution, they court has no choice but to ban AK Parti. |
What exactly does it say in the constitution? |
Part 1, Article 2. "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, SECULAR and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble"
I think this is where the Kemalists and the AK Parti supporters begin to part ways.
|
|
| 11. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 09:46 pm |
|
Yes, but to be honest I dont think that the issue of headscarves is against secularism?
Well I hope it will open a way for people who are neither Kemalist or religious to create a new party.
|
|
| 12. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 09:58 pm |
|
Quoting Deli_kizin: Yes, but to be honest I dont think that the issue of headscarves is against secularism?
Well I hope it will open a way for people who are neither Kemalist or religious to create a new party. |
Well, being loyal to Ataturk means being a Kemalist, doesn't it?
Deli, read the preamble and the first four articles of the constitution and maybe you will see why some (including me) see this so clearly.
|
|
| 13. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:08 pm |
|
Quoting KeithL: Well, being loyal to Ataturk means being a Kemalist, doesn't it?
Deli, read the preamble and the first four articles of the constitution and maybe you will see why some (including me) see this so clearly. |
Ok I will have a look at it, thanks for the tip 
Yes you are probably right.. I have lots of respect for Atatürk, but after having watched some documentaries on Turkish politics, according to those documentaries the Kemalists arent trying to move foreward. They live in a praise of the past, whereas AKP did do things to move forwards. MHP is not an option at all, so if the AKP closes, I hope a strong party emerges that combines the 'good actions' and 'force' of AKP, with the secularism of CHP.
But these are just based upon some western documentaries so I dont know how much they are trustworthy. With the experience I have so far, I have concluded they are right.
|
|
| 14. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:33 pm |
|
Well the constitution has already been broken because of this line "respecting human rights", and honestly how does allowing headscarves at unis (allowing them, thus giving more females the chance of getting an education, not making them mandatory(!)) interfere with secularism? In secular states people should have the right to believe in any religion, if that's what they want. It's a personal right.
|
|
| 15. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:39 pm |
|
Quoting Deli_kizin:
What exactly does it say in the constitution? |
Actually, this is the constitution done by the army in 1983.
The clauses related to the political parties have been the reason for closure.
But those clauses, as everybody accepts, are quite rounded and open to subjectivity.
They wanted to change it many many times, but somehow, it was never done..
But I know, every party agreed that the law about political patries is very open to interpretation.
It needs changing.
|
|
| 16. |
01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:57 pm |
|
Our great country on a big democracy exam lately,so i hope we can pass this exam with the minimum political and economical harm..
|
|
| 17. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:03 am |
|
Quoting azade: honestly how does allowing headscarves at unis (allowing them, thus giving more females the chance of getting an education, not making them mandatory(!)) interfere with secularism? In secular states people should have the right to believe in any religion, if that's what they want. It's a personal right. |
+1000000000000
|
|
| 18. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:20 am |
|
Quoting catwoman: Quoting azade: honestly how does allowing headscarves at unis (allowing them, thus giving more females the chance of getting an education, not making them mandatory(!)) interfere with secularism? In secular states people should have the right to believe in any religion, if that's what they want. It's a personal right. |
+1000000000000 |
+1 (I know, now it looks I dont agree with you as much as Catwoman does, but I do  )
Im an opposer of AKP, I dont like when religious elements enter politics, even when it is not their main agenda. (for example I am also against Christian Democratic Party, of which our prime minister is member), and Im happy to see that there are still lots of secular-voices in Turkey. So this case, just proves my point that Turkey does not want AND wont accept an Islamic government. But I think this case itself is a bit idiot: the arguments (from what I understand here) dont really make (democratic) sense, it will only create chaos and soon another party will emerge anyhow and as a last: wasnt AKP voted for by over 4o% of the population? I know that when a party does something against the law, it should be closed, no matter how many votes it got. But add it up with the other arguments and it sounds a bit strange to close this party. But as a personal thought, I will be happy it AKP is gone 
|
|
| 19. |
03 Apr 2008 Thu 01:01 am |
|
Quoting Deli_kizin: Yes, but to be honest I dont think that the issue of headscarves is against secularism? |
Of course it is in todays Turkia. In 1989 our Constitutional Court has ruled that "Wearing the turban on campuses is against the secular regime".
As I mentioned many times in other topics the main goal of AKP is to Islamatize the state and all public departments before more radical changes can be applied.
Not long ago AKP Konya deputy Hüsnü Tuna said that their goal is not only to allow headscarf in any school but also to allow it for state employment.
If headscarf is allowed at universities then those who graduate from certain departments like medical and education department would have to be employed by the state. In Turkia there isn't really much other choice except working for the government for many professions including teachers and doctors.
AKP members say, if they are allowed to study we should give them jobs when they graduate. This would be already an advanced step in Islamitization of civil services and education which is critical before an Islamic revolution.
The Islamists are not ordinary citizens who just want to practice their religion. As one of them said to me once they are "a ring of a chain".
When we closed down Refah Party they went to the European Court of Human Rights and it was ruled that our Constitutional Court was to close them down since Islam does not comply with democracy and therefore a political party that is based on Islam can be closed.
We will close down any Islamic party as long as those are a serious threat for our secular state. In the future when Islamists don't represent a real threat headscarf ban will be lifted only in universities but not for state employment.
It is funny that some argue that a party with such high public vote should not be closed. The same was said for Refah Party although they had only about %30 of votes whereas AKP has %47. The point is that the higher the vote rate the higher the threat they represent when we are talking about Islamist parites. If they had only %2 or %4 of votes there would be absolutely no reason to close them down. AKP especially deserves to be closed becose they are a serious threat.
|
|
|
