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syntax!!??
1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 11:32 pm

Dear Turkce experts

Please could you explain what this MAY mean, and how is it syntatically constructed?

".... gelirip gelmecesine", "... gülürüp gülmecesine"

Are they something like "gelir gelmez" ... a 'set piece' yani a colloquial expression or a 'sound bite' of a kind, which we Turkce'den ignoramus people cannot 'sus out'?

aapka beyhad shukreye dost, ve salamat. (Urduce)

2.       lazy42
46 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 09:52 pm

Syntax Error!
These expressions are neither gramatically correct nor meaningful.
"Gelir gelmez" is correct, of course.

3.       Tazx1
435 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:13 pm

so what does

"ölürüp ölmecesine" mean. I read this in a children's story where two animals are fighting!!

I'm sure this is a colloquial way of saying something. Will this enable you to help me?

4.       lazy42
46 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 10:37 pm

Quoting Tazx1:

so what does

"ölürüp ölmecesine" mean. I read this in a children's story where two animals are fighting!!

I'm sure this is a colloquial way of saying something. Will this enable you to help me?


Mister (or ma'am), I am sorry but "ölürüp ölmecesine" does not mean anything. If you meant to say:

"öldürüp öldürmemek" - to kill or not to kill
"ölüp ölmemek" - to die or not to die
"gülüp gülmemek" - to laugh or not to laugh
"olmak ya da olmamak" - to be or not to be

or,
"öldürürcesine" - (as if with the intent) to kill ie: Öldürürcesine vurdu: He hit as if he wanted to kill.

Other than that, if you are able to post the sentence in the storybook I will be happy to help.

5.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 02:09 am

It doesn't mean anything for me.

There is no form something like this (or even not similar) in Turkish:
gülürüp or ölürüp

And ölmecesine could mean something like bilmemecesine, but it can mean only if there is a struggle about the negative event.

A meaningful example:
Durmamacasına koşuyor:
He runs by struggling to stop/ He runs so much and he struggles not to stop. He doesn't have a plan stopping.

But still ölmecesine is not reasonable for this form.

6.       Tazx1
435 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 04:18 am

I am very sorry [I have confessed before that] I suffer from 'dislexia' from early childhood. It should have been [as lazy42 said] :-

öldürüp ölmecesine

May I thank caliptrix, lazy42 and all others who helped me. I now know what I needed. Although I understood the general meaning ... I now also know it better.

suanda anlatirmaya icin, sizlere cok tesekkur ediyoum. Kolay gelsin.

***I am a 'He' yani Tazx1 Bey***

7.       Tazx1
435 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 04:31 am

Thank you lazy42

The sentence was

"Nasil bir dövüş? Kıysıya, kırasına, ölürüp [must be a mistake - it is not- öldürüp] ölmecesine! Kan ter içinde kalmışlar".

The meaning is quite clear but I wanted an EXACT translation of - ölürüp ölmecesine - you have helped me enough now. It must be a printing error, may be.

Thanks to all of you.

Tazx1 Bey

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