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Missing Italian Arists in Turkey was found dead
(43 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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30.       catwoman
8933 posts
 15 Apr 2008 Tue 05:21 pm

Lots of good points were raised here about this issue. I really liked handsom's ideas about foreign women being seen as less worthy then Turkish women. This issue keeps coming up again and again.
One certain thing is that Turkey needs some self reflection. Again, this is not a problem only of Turkey, absolutely not, but there are some very unique issues that Turkey has that really have to change.

31.       KeithL
1455 posts
 16 Apr 2008 Wed 05:42 am

I see some women in Gebze are considering finishing the walk to Israel. This would be touching...

32.       catwoman
8933 posts
 16 Apr 2008 Wed 07:03 am

Quoting KeithL:

I see some women in Gebze are considering finishing the walk to Israel. This would be touching...


Wow.... that would be amazing...

33.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 16 Apr 2008 Wed 08:16 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting KeithL:

I see some women in Gebze are considering finishing the walk to Israel. This would be touching...


Wow.... that would be amazing...



I couldn't disagree more. This poor Italian artist died because she wanted to prove a point. She was wrong...so other people follow in her footsteps? I personally don't believe in the innane goodness of mankind...maybe that's why I don't get it.

34.       misia
43 posts
 16 Apr 2008 Wed 10:57 pm

I also think it would be amazing if women from Gebze completed the demonsrtation to Israel. Anyone who feels such a demonstration is pointless, because mankind is inherently evil, may tragically be missing the point. Life is always a fight between good and evil. The people who are prepared to follow in Pipa's footsteps are taking on the battle for higher ideals and a better way of life. They don't want to see evil win. Participation in the demonstration may also help dispel any ideas that the murder of a foreign woman in Turkey is culturally perceived as insignificant. Pipa's parents and family could have been consumed with anger at the Turkish people because Turkey was the country in which she was brutally raped and murdered. From what I have read, the family have only spoken well of the Turkish people and thanked them for their kindness. They acknowledged that regarding Pipa's death, there was only one culprit. They have not taken the evil act of one man and condemned an entire nation or mankind. At times it seems the world is full of evil and philosophers have long argued about the true nature of man. I would argue people are basically good. The only time evil triumphs is when good people stand by and do nothing.

35.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 16 Apr 2008 Wed 11:06 pm

I agree that the actions of Pipa's family is very commendable and touching. But you can't ignore that there are dangers in the world by hoping for the best in people. Just my opinion. I travel alone quite a bit and stories like this only make me more aware that danger exists in the world.

36.       alameda
3499 posts
 17 Apr 2008 Thu 09:43 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

I agree that the actions of Pipa's family is very commendable and touching. But you can't ignore that there are dangers in the world by hoping for the best in people. Just my opinion. I travel alone quite a bit and stories like this only make me more aware that danger exists in the world.



I agree with you Elisabeth. Any woman, or anyone, who hitchhikes alone is very naive and taking a terrible risk. I'm amazed that so many people knew she was doing this and did not warn her about the dangers.

It's nice to believe in the goodness of humanity, but at the same time everyone isn't working from the highest part of the human brain. There are many who are in the reactive reptile brain.

Rape, murder happens all over the world.

Rape Statistics

Like it or not, most men are much stronger than women. I've even seen women I know who are Black Belts over powered by men who are not acomplished in martial arts.

37.       geniuda
1070 posts
 17 Apr 2008 Thu 10:06 pm

Quoting alameda:


Rape Statistics



Rape by perpetrator

Perpetrator Frequency
Steady dating partner 21.6%...?
vs
Stranger 2%...?


38.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Apr 2008 Thu 10:27 pm

"Victim blaming" is holding the victim of a crime to be in whole or in part responsible for what has happened to them. A global survey of attitudes toward sexual violence by the Global Forum for Health Research shows that victim-blaming concepts are at least partially accepted in many countries. In some countries, victim-blaming is more common, and women who have been raped are sometimes deemed to have behaved improperly. Often, these are countries where there is a significant social divide between the freedoms and status afforded to men and women.

Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation. 1992). 1 of 6 U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape.

39.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 17 Apr 2008 Thu 10:43 pm

I agree that "victim blaming" is wrong. Although personally, I feel like I have a responsibility to myself (and those who care for me) to keep myself from danger. I see this young women who set out to prove the world is generally a kind place...and it is obviously not. There is no way I blame this young woman for what happened to her but on the same note...if she had not decided to hitch-hike through the middle east, she would still be alive today. For me it isn't so much a question of who is to blame, but a question of self perservation.

40.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 18 Apr 2008 Fri 10:12 am

It's true Elisabeth that she either miscalculated the risk or was too naive to see it or that she had bad luck and out of 80% of good guys she met a rapist. As much as I'd hate to see my daughter hitchhiking alone, I find it hardly an excuse for the rapist. How far should a woman go to "protect" herself from danger? Rosie suggested covering herself. To me the idea that women should cover to avoid male aggression is a perverted idea. Doing so is a slap on men's face. It means you consider them primitive beasts unable to control themselves and this is not true for most men. Just like it is impossible to avoid murder or theft even if you do stick to some precautions, if you are to be raped, nothing will prevent it once you're targeted.

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