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Top court rejects closure, nation heaves sigh of relief
(27 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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20.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 09:39 pm

Quoting gencturk:

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting gencturk:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting gencturk:

what AKP truly stands for?



Enlighten me please. Tell me what it truly stands for, maybe my prejudiced (western) view will change (or not of course...)



well, I am neither a pro nor an anti AKP. but Everyone should respect the voters. Citizens voted 34% at 2002 and voted 46% at 2007 for AKP (voter participation %84 and Second most voted party was %20 ). AKP increased their votes. This was not happend in last 50 years. this is democracy and we have fragile democracy in Turkey. we have faced 3 military coup (1960, 1970, 1980 ). the military is still (politically) strong and threat for the government.
I am not going to describe what AKP stand for. but rather I will give you two links, interview with Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Prime minister of Turkey and Leader of the AKP). which may helpful.

Charlie Rose - Recep Tayyip Erdogan (2005)
Charlie Rose - Recep Tayyip Erdogan (2007)




still playing the democracy card? we all know that democracy is just a tool for akp to transform Turkey into a theocratic state.

If you`re really such a dedicated fan of democracy, what do you think about the head courts judgement confirming that akp violates the constitution? That constitution was voted by more than 90 percent of the people, and 90 is greater than 47.





That constitution wrote by Military coup (1980 ). and Head court (Anayasa mahkemesi) members to be appointed by former President Ahmet necdet sezer, Who is an anti akp person. So there is no justified Law and judgement.

and you should be a fan of democracy, everyone needs democracy.



The 1982 constitution was accepted by 94 percent of the people in the referendum held in the same year.
http://ansiklopedi.blogspot.com/2004/12/1982-anayasas.html



21.       gencturk
326 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 10:08 pm

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting gencturk:

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting gencturk:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting gencturk:

what AKP truly stands for?



Enlighten me please. Tell me what it truly stands for, maybe my prejudiced (western) view will change (or not of course...)



well, I am neither a pro nor an anti AKP. but Everyone should respect the voters. Citizens voted 34% at 2002 and voted 46% at 2007 for AKP (voter participation %84 and Second most voted party was %20 ). AKP increased their votes. This was not happend in last 50 years. this is democracy and we have fragile democracy in Turkey. we have faced 3 military coup (1960, 1970, 1980 ). the military is still (politically) strong and threat for the government.
I am not going to describe what AKP stand for. but rather I will give you two links, interview with Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Prime minister of Turkey and Leader of the AKP). which may helpful.

Charlie Rose - Recep Tayyip Erdogan (2005)
Charlie Rose - Recep Tayyip Erdogan (2007)




still playing the democracy card? we all know that democracy is just a tool for akp to transform Turkey into a theocratic state.

If you`re really such a dedicated fan of democracy, what do you think about the head courts judgement confirming that akp violates the constitution? That constitution was voted by more than 90 percent of the people, and 90 is greater than 47.





That constitution wrote by Military coup (1980 ). and Head court (Anayasa mahkemesi) members to be appointed by former President Ahmet necdet sezer, Who is an anti akp person. So there is no justified Law and judgement.

and you should be a fan of democracy, everyone needs democracy.



The 1982 constitution was accepted by 94 percent of the people in the referendum held in the same year.
http://ansiklopedi.blogspot.com/2004/12/1982-anayasas.html





phrase from your source:

"Yönetime el koyan askerî güç, 1960´da olduğu gibi yeni bir anayasa için "Kurucu Meclis" oluşturdu. İki yıl içinde yeni anayasa hazırlandı ve 7 Kasım 1982´de halk oyuna sunuldu."


as I said before, The 1982 constitution wrote by Military coup (1980 ) government. and voted under military coup government. What a free referendum and democracy is it?

22.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 10:25 pm

I agree with you gencturk..
The constitution of 1982 has never been LEGITIMATE..
Nobody was allowed to speak what was what; people who were against it were put in jail; Kenan Evren used all the media tv, newspapers etc for the propaganda.
The funny thing of them all was presidency and the constitution was in one election.. YES meant ´I approve the constitution and the president´.
And there was no other candidate at all..
can anybody call that type of election legitimate?
lol lol

23.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 10:45 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

I agree with you gencturk..
The constitution of 1982 has never been LEGITIMATE..
Nobody was allowed to speak what was what; people who were against it were put in jail; Kenan Evren used all the media tv, newspapers etc for the propaganda.
The funny thing of them all was presidency and the constitution was in one election.. YES meant ´I approve the constitution and the president´.
And there was no other candidate at all..
can anybody call that type of election legitimate?
lol lol



I never argued that it was a good constitution. I just said that 94 percent of the people approved that constitution, and that`s 100% right.

24.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 10:57 pm

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting thehandsom:

I agree with you gencturk..
The constitution of 1982 has never been LEGITIMATE..
Nobody was allowed to speak what was what; people who were against it were put in jail; Kenan Evren used all the media tv, newspapers etc for the propaganda.
The funny thing of them all was presidency and the constitution was in one election.. YES meant ´I approve the constitution and the president´.
And there was no other candidate at all..
can anybody call that type of election legitimate?
lol lol



I never argued that it was a good constitution. I just said that 94 percent of the people approved that constitution, and that`s 100% right.


I just explained it to you why 94% vote under those circumstances wont give you legitimacy..
I guess you will accept the fact that the constitution you are talking about is not entirely legitimate..

25.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 04 Aug 2008 Mon 11:37 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting thehandsom:

I agree with you gencturk..
The constitution of 1982 has never been LEGITIMATE..
Nobody was allowed to speak what was what; people who were against it were put in jail; Kenan Evren used all the media tv, newspapers etc for the propaganda.
The funny thing of them all was presidency and the constitution was in one election.. YES meant ´I approve the constitution and the president´.
And there was no other candidate at all..
can anybody call that type of election legitimate?
lol lol



I never argued that it was a good constitution. I just said that 94 percent of the people approved that constitution, and that`s 100% right.


I just explained it to you why 94% vote under those circumstances wont give you legitimacy..
I guess you will accept the fact that the constitution you are talking about is not entirely legitimate..




if the constitution is illegitimate, then the akp administration must also be illegitimate because they came into power by means of this constitution. Do you agree???

26.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 05 Aug 2008 Tue 12:09 am

Quoting tamikidakika:



if the constitution is illegitimate, then the akp administration must also be illegitimate because they came into power by means of this constitution. Do you agree???


I dont think this argument is going anywhere. Because with your view we never had a legitimate government since 1982..lol
Well.. may be yours is right way of saying it considering having 60% majority in the parliment with 21% of vote as we saw in previous governments..
But at least it has been done with the system given to them. I mean at least there were elections and voting.
The acceptance of the constitution in 1982 was not like that at all..
The voting was shambles and that 94% should not be given as a criteria anywhere.

27.       Sfarog
14 posts
 09 Aug 2008 Sat 03:52 am

It´s interesting to see the debate here. I feel a bit strange that I can´t enter it from the inside, but from the outside the AKP party is turning Turkey away from where I, as a european, would like to see it and where I believe it would find the best - EU.

The fact is that becase Erdogan was Pro - EU they supported him but in the last year or so Turkeys credit has fallen greately in Europe. I put aside the obvious reasons (which are not important) like that EU treats Turkey like crap (even ´tho in many ways Turkey has been stubborn also), which creates long and boring debates which frustrates turkish citizens -> they turn away from EU. But from the political, economical and historical point of view Turkey should come into EU as soon as possible. This, sadly, is getting more and more unreal.

Turkeys goverment muslimise the country greately and countries like Poland and Germany who opposed the entrance talks all the time are now even inclined to totaly freeze any talks through their right of veto. There are rumors of political oppresion, fake trials, wide-spread corruption and a videspread religious outbreak which scares the hell of Poland and other more religious states. All this (if continuing) will escalate into another rejection of Turkeys application and will leave it alone on the shores of EU with no real friends in muslim world also.

Please note that I come from a state who has been in EU for four years now and that I am no EU mongler. I would say I am more a sceptic than anything else.
Also who knows something about the history of my country knows that we had a great deal of totality here over the years so I feel really worried about things.

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