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Problems
1.       REES
1 posts
 24 Jul 2005 Sun 12:12 pm

Started to learn Turkish without a teacher
Can anybody help with these early problems ,lutfen
1When i listen to ir ending words eg peynir ;the ending sometimes sounds like ish
2 It seems sometimes that letters after a g umlat are NOT pronounced other times they are ie bir sey degil -bir sey de
3Why the na ending on havaalanina in the sentence-havaalanina gitmek istiyoram
Thanks for ANY help

2.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jul 2005 Mon 06:16 am

Hello REES,
welcome to the Turkish Class Forums. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like we like answering them.

1. I have never heard of different pronounciations of `peynir`. It should be pronounced as it is written like `peynir`. In fact Turkish is a phonetic language which means all the letters remain the same sound no matter in which word they are used. There are some exceptions but if you insist on saying words like they have written it will be always acceptable.
Example:
Bir: can be pronounced as `bi` but as I said there is nothing wrong to say it as `bir`. This will be perfectly allright.
Also some vowels have two forms; one higher sounding and one deeper sounding form. But even many Turks mix them sometimes so I wouldnt care much.

2. The letter soft g ( Ğğ ) has a very limited sound and can be very diffucult to pronounce for foreigners. In Turkish ğ does never come to the begining of any word. So it can be between other letters or at the end. If it is between other letters dropping it will be acceptable as long as long as the word consists of more than one syllable. These days some Turks, especially females find it more modern to drop the sound of ğ in some words. It would be better if it is included.

değil: can be pronounced as `değil` or `deil`. The second one will be still acceptable but isnt as good as the first one.
Bir şey değil > you are welcome > This is almost pronounced as one word. bişeydeil or even Bişeydiil will be OK.

3.
Havaalanı : airport
Havaalanına : to the airport

This word is a little complicated. First of all there are actually two nouns here; hava-alan. To make a new word these two have been put together. I dont know the english grammatical term for this. I will be happy if someone lets me know if there is a term for two nouns put together to make a new one.

hava: air
alan: space, place
hava-alan-ı: airport
Here the `ı` is a possesive suffix. Third person singular possesive suffixes can be –ı (-i, -u, -ü) or when the word end with a vowel -sı -si, -su, -sü.

Now we have the word `havaalanı` (the `alan` of the `hava`) and we need to add the dative suffixes to make it `to the airport`. Normally the dative suffixes are -e/a [or by -ye/ya after a vowel] but there is an exception.

"If a third singular word has a possesive suffix any case suffixes following will be placed after the buffer `n`.

Please note that in the example below each noun has a possesive suffix before the n and case suffixes.

Examples:
kendi-si-n-e, to himself
baba-sı-n-a, to his father
okul-u-n-a, to his school
ev-i-n-e, to his house
iş-i-n-e, to his work
kapının kolu-n-a, to the door knop
evin duvar-ı-na, to the house wall

REES,
I hope the complicated grammatical structure of Turkish language wont be putting you off. Grammer is certainly very usefull. If you like studying grammer this is fine but if you dont like it, simply forget about it. Use all the wrong suffixes and people will still understand what you are saying. Time and practice will correct these on its own.

Turkish is a very interesting language because it has the structure of root words. Even the most uncommon words are generated from simple words. An uneducated farmer would understand these kind words in most cases. At least he would have an idea o what it means even if he doesnt understand properly. I will give a few exaples. You can double click on words.

ev-evcimen-evsiz
dur-durgun-durağan
bak-bakım-bakımsız-bakış-bakışımsız

Unfortunately some people in Turkey even some more educated intellectuals find it cool to use foreign words.

3.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jul 2005 Mon 06:19 am

I havent checked properly and I dont know if the issues are explained in an english website, maybe they are but here is a Turkish website (about the `n` buffer) for our Turkish visitors who are interested on these issues.

http://farabi.selcuk.edu.tr/suzep/turk_dili/ders_notlari/bolum_12/bolum12.html

4.       bliss
900 posts
 25 Jul 2005 Mon 08:23 am

Hello Erdinc,
In english it is called a compound noun - when you combine two nouns to make one word.(Bed, Room -Bedroom;
Butter, Fly -Butterfly; Egg, Plant -Eggplant)
Regards Bliss

5.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Jul 2005 Mon 09:35 am

Thank you bliss.

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