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WHAT IS WRONG WITH KAMAL HIS DAUGHTER?
1.       hanan
197 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 01:47 pm

kemal and his daughter caused me a problem because in this sentence :
Kemal's daughter ( kemalin kızı the (i) in the suffix (in)doesnt change according to vowel harmony , or because it is a name vowel harmony rules are not used?
thanks .

2.       miss_ceyda
2627 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 01:48 pm

i dont really understand the question and i cant be bothered to read it again hehe.. but i will tell you the correct way to say "kemal's daugther"

"KEMAL'İN KIZI"

3.       hanan
197 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 02:00 pm

thanks micc c ,what i meant by my question is that i found this sentence in TC but i didn't understand why in doesnt obey vowel harmony , but i guess it is just a write mistake in TC .

4.       Elisa
0 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 02:58 pm

It's not a mistake. I asked the same question once, and the answer was that Kemal is an exception. The "a" of Kemal is pronounced differently (like the â in hâlâ if I remember correctly).
Hence it's an exception on the vowel harmony rule. So you add "i" instead of ı when adding a suffix.

Those exceptions are not that many, but there are a couple more, like "harf" - letter (alphabet). The plural for example is not "harflar" as you might expect, but "harfler"..

5.       Kadir37
0 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 04:27 pm

6.       erdinc
2151 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 04:31 pm

There are a few other words like this.

gol: goal
golü : the goal

7.       miss_ceyda
2627 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 04:44 pm

Quoting erdinc:

There are a few other words like this.

gol: goal
golü : the goal



ahhh.. i didnt know this one...!!
do u think that we could create a list with them all in??

8.       erdinc
2151 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 05:02 pm

The rule is explained here:

1. Words that have the front sounding 'a' as last vowel, take front vowels: harf-e, seyehat-i etc.
2. Words that have flat 'k' or 'l' as last consonants take front vowels even if they have a back vowel as last vowel: rol-ü, gol-ü etc.

1. Son ünlüsü ön a olan sözcükler art ünlülü değil, ön ünlülü ekler alırlar: harf-e, seyahat-i gibi. 2. Son ünsüzü öndamaksıl (ince) k ve 1 olan sözcükler, art ünlü bulundursalar bile ön ünlülü ekler alırlar: rol-ü, gol-e gibi.

http://tr.wikibooks.org/wiki/%22%C3%9Cnl%C3%BC_Fonemlerle_%C4%B0lgili_%C3%96zellikler%22

9.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 27 Mar 2006 Mon 06:02 pm

Am I wrong to say that, once you learnt to speak Turkish properly, and to 'feel' the language on your lips and tongue as well, you will probably just say golü yourself, as it sounds better?

When I don't know how to spell a Dutch word and doubt between two versions, i write them both down.. because I can see which of the two is correct. If i don't know how to pronounce an English word, I say the two versions that i couldn't choose between, and I hear which one is right. English and Dutch have become part of my 'speaking-system' so it's like a 'native intuition' that shows me what is correct.

Does this count for such Turkish cases as Kemal'in and golü as well?

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