Turkey |
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Burqa
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30. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 09:35 pm |
Among muslims there is lots of disagreement whether the Quran states if a woman must veil/cover herself and if so, what should be covered. For me, if there is a ´God´ up there, who sent ´the people´ a book with rules on how to live, why was it written in such a way that it is so easily to intepret words your way? That is just asking for oppression of the weak by the strong and the imposition of rules on the weak by the strong.
Maybe it´s just me, but I don´t think it should matter if it is part of the religion or not. It should still be up to the interpretation and descretion of the individual whether or not to wear it. I think all humans should have the right to read something, come to their own conclusion and then follow his or her heart.
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31. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 09:45 pm |
That has very different background, history and reasons than the ones discussed in this thread. A difference in terminology is necessary here, and I do believe that türban (as opposed to geleneksel baþöürtüleri) is a political symbol, which has very little to do with religion. I don´t have time to get into it, but you should have a look at the name Necmettin Erbakan and the development of the türban sorunu in Turkey. You will understand that ´those educated women who refuse to take it off´ aren´t so much concerned about their religion.. (ofcourse this is a generalisation, but ý have seen them so often: wearing tight clothes, lots of make-up and then putting on a headscarf to cover their feminine charms. Yeah sure. So much for religion! I don´t buy it!)
Thanks for your welcome-back wish CANLI ITs good to be back!
Ãm sure there are different reasons and history backgrounds why women wear hijab or cover themselves at any way
Women used to cover up before Ãslam too, so i cant say that is because of Ãslam.
But now to us muslim women we do cover our hair and bodies..hijab that is for that reason only, that its an order from ALLAH
à dont know why its much easier for you to serach for different reasons why muslim women wear hijab all over the world rather than accept our reason ´we muslim women´ ?! 
Women wear it every where at the world not just at some places so you can get a historical reason for that
Women wear it in German...in South Africa, in Australia, at Saudi Arabia, at Ãran, at Egypt, at Türkiye, even in China..etc
All those wear it would have a special reason for each country rather than the obvious one that we wear it because its an order from ALLAH ?! 
Women wear it as they want, some cover themselves all together, some wear it as it should be, some wear tiny clothes that show their bodies...thats women´s preferences
Sometimes forced upon them as in saudi Arabis
Who told you we dont have same things here as well ?!
Yes many women wear hijab in a way that show their bodies, so tight clothes, wear makeup and more too.
But at same time, you cant judge her for what she wear and say it has nothing to do with religion !
She wears it for that, doesnt matter how she applies it, its her business only with ALLAH
No matter how much i or you agree with what they wear or not, but would you rather we have in each Muslim country a religious police walk around order women how they wear their own hijab ?!
à believe not.
We have the order, everyone apply it as she likes, even if she doesnt apply it at all, ALLAH will judge us not anyone else, and i guess as a muslim i prefer it that way.
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32. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 09:50 pm |
Elisabeth,
No one here is advocating that women should be running around naked; all should be decently dressed. Even a choice to dress like a clown, at all times, in public should be one´s own personal choice.
But telling others this clown outfit is god´s order and enforcing it on public is ridiculus and has nothing to do with Islam.
I agree with what you said about burqas not being part of Islam. But even if it where, people (all people and not just men) should have a right to choose whether or not they follow the religion and its teachings. A persons choices about what to follow and what not to follow is between him/her and God.
The key word is "choice". But it appears for some of these women it´s not a choice.
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33. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 09:57 pm |
The key word is "choice". But it appears for some of these women it´s not a choice.
Exactly! I can understand the logic behind burqa in desert countries, but it should still be up to each person whether to wear it or not. If a country orders women to wear it, it should be the same for men too. I wonder how long that order would last, should men be forced to wear it too 
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34. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:00 pm |
Canli,
I dont care what any woman wears, so long as she does not tell me it is god´s or Kuran´s order.
No place in Kuran does it say the woman should cover her hair. The actual command to the women is not to expose their breasts provacatively, and hide them by letting their head cover hang down loose over their breasts. Arab women who already need to cover their head against fiearce sun were shown the easiest way to hide their boobs. COVER YOUR BOOBS, WITH YOUR HEAD SCARF IF YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE - WITH SOMETHING ELSE IF YOU DONT HAVE A HEADSCARF. What is required and ordered here is modesty, not a headscarf. There is no ban on hair.
When you claim the hair should be hidden, other idiots go further an claim the face should be hidden as well...What we obviously need are invisible women.
How you read the same book and conclude god wants all women to hide their hair is definitely beyond me ! Yours must be a different Islam.
Edited (7/17/2009) by AlphaF
Edited (7/17/2009) by AlphaF
Edited (7/17/2009) by AlphaF
Edited (7/17/2009) by AlphaF
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35. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:10 pm |
Among muslims there is lots of disagreement whether the Quran states if a woman must veil/cover herself and if so, what should be covered. For me, if there is a ´God´ up there, who sent ´the people´ a book with rules on how to live, why was it written in such a way that it is so easily to intepret words your way? That is just asking for oppression of the weak by the strong and the imposition of rules on the weak by the strong.
Actually its very clear and doesnt need any personal interpretation !
Look at the number of muslims women wearing hijab all over the world and you would see that too as a proof.
Our book which guide us are Quran and Sunna represnt in rasul SAV hadith, and when it come to hadith we have a science of its own to say which hadith is strong and we follow.
As you know there are degrees of hadith strong, weak, and accepted by all
Anyway, hijab is already written in Quran so we dont have any discussion about it except for those who dont want to wear it and at same time dont want to feel they are not obaying ALLAH so they clam differntly !
As you know Quran has been deliver to us in Arabic, so people who know Arabic could read the verses and can not question it.
As in Turkish ..also in arabic words can have many meanings and it depends on the sentnce itself to deliver the wanted meaning, and only Arabs would tell the differnce or one who live and understand the culture as well
Thats why when one become Muslim he/she should read books which is accepted by highly arabic religion authority, so the translation of the books, any books would explain exactly what meant behinde the words.
For us what it does that is Al Azhar, and for me even if i read a religious book in arabic it wont be credited to me unless it was approved by El Azhar.
Thats why publishing Quran and translation of Quran is not something everyone and anyone allowed to do.
Ãts a tricky things and carry lots of responsibilities, so if a book not credited by such authorities one shouldnt take his guidlines from it specially new muslims, some how we as muslims can put our hands on things not norm but new muslims wouldnt get the differences because they dont have the knowledge to judge.
Ãn short...hijab is an order in Ãslam..but niqab is not
Women in the past used to wear it, wives of Rasul SAV worn it for reasons at that time now some women also wear it...we dont refuse it, but at same time its NOT an order from ALLAH
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36. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:13 pm |
Exactly! I can understand the logic behind burqa in desert countries, but it should still be up to each person whether to wear it or not. If a country orders women to wear it, it should be the same for men too. I wonder how long that order would last, should men be forced to wear it too 
In their country men and women are not created equal under Mohammeds eyes..
Great idea DD...the men would have to wear it also. Then nobody could stare at eachother.....Heck you wouldn´t even have to have men and womens restrooms. Who would know the difference?
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37. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:16 pm |
In their country men and women are not created equal under Mohammeds eyes..
Great idea DD...the men would have to wear it also. Then nobody could stare at eachother.....Heck you wouldn´t even have to have men and womens restrooms. Who would know the difference?
I want my boyfriend to be covered and while walking with me to keep his eyes down i dont want other women to look with lust at him 
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38. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:17 pm |
In their country men and women are not created equal under Mohammeds eyes..
Great idea DD...the men would have to wear it also. Then nobody could stare at eachother.....Heck you wouldn´t even have to have men and womens restrooms. Who would know the difference?

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39. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:18 pm |
Maybe it´s just me, but I don´t think it should matter if it is part of the religion or not. It should still be up to the interpretation and descretion of the individual whether or not to wear it. I think all humans should have the right to read something, come to their own conclusion and then follow his or her heart.
To a great extent I agree with you Elisabeth....however in order for the smooth operation of society, some agreement on where the baseline is has to be agreed on. Otherwise we would have some running around naked, and others in mummy like outfits.
I draw the line at functionality. If something hinders proper function, like I trip over it, it blocks vitamine absorbtion and air circulation, or exposes my skin to infection from fungi, abrasions or animal bites or who knows what?....there is where the line is drawn. Aesthetics come later. You know design or function?
Edited (7/17/2009) by alameda
[spell edit]
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40. |
17 Jul 2009 Fri 10:21 pm |
In their country men and women are not created equal under Mohammeds eyes..
Great idea DD...the men would have to wear it also. Then nobody could stare at eachother.....Heck you wouldn´t even have to have men and womens restrooms. Who would know the difference?
That is a very nice point, that I did not raise to avoid offending our Saudi friends.
In my country, if you are flirting with a woman and did not want your relation be publicly known, you would be very careful before you took her into your car or took her anywhere, for fear she would be recognized.
In Saudia, with all ladies covered, it is very hard to tell whose wife is in whose car.
Edited (7/17/2009) by AlphaF
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