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1.       GulBahar
224 posts
 18 Feb 2009 Wed 11:29 pm

If I want to say "your house is beautiful" or "You have a beautiful house"

 

Why would you use -miþ as suffix.

 

In fact I´ve heard it in a series which was dubbed and I wanted to know the sentece so I heard them say

 

Eviniz güzelmiþ

(or could it be Eviniz güzel varmiþ, but may be not correct because I hardly could hear v)

 

Isn´t miþ is a suffix for past tense....

 

Thanks for help {#lang_emotions_unsure}

2.       Melek74
1506 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 12:07 am

 

Quoting GulBahar

If I want to say "your house is beautiful" or "You have a beautiful house"

 

Why would you use -miþ as suffix.

 

In fact I´ve heard it in a series which was dubbed and I wanted to know the sentece so I heard them say

 

Eviniz güzelmiþ

(or could it be Eviniz güzel varmiþ, but may be not correct because I hardly could hear v)

 

Isn´t miþ is a suffix for past tense....

 

Thanks for help {#lang_emotions_unsure}

 

You can say "eviniz güzel" without the -miþ, when you add -miþ it implies inference or hearsay, so it´s closer in meaning to "I hear your house is beutiful" or "They say your house is beautiful", or I think you can also use it when you didn´t know the house was beautiful, you come to visit and there it is, you just realized or learned that it´s beautiful.

 

That´s how I understand it, but I´m a learner too, so maybe somebody more experienced or a native speaker can shed more light on it.



Edited (2/19/2009) by Melek74

3.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 12:58 am

What Melek said is certainly true. You can use the -miþ form in the form of hearsay. You have heard or have been told about something.

 

Eg. karisi cok guzelmis. / (Apparently) his wife is beautiful (as you have been told or heard)

Cok parasi varmis. / (Apparently) he has a lot of money (or you have been told or heard about him having a lot of money)

 

What you have heard in the tv series is an incorrect yet very commn use of the -mis form.

 

Eviniz cok guzel. / Your house is beautiful

 

means exactly the same thing as Eviniz cok guzelmis.

 

The difference is that they have different connotations.

 

The first one simply states that your house is beautiful. The second one could mean various things depending on the context. It could infer jealousy, envy etc.

 

Nevertheless, as common as it is, it is an incorrect use of the form, and is very unlikely that you will be able to understand it unless you are familiar with the Turkish culture & mentality very well, as well as the langauge itself.

 

 

 

 

Quoting GulBahar

If I want to say "your house is beautiful" or "You have a beautiful house"

 

Why would you use -miþ as suffix.

 

In fact I´ve heard it in a series which was dubbed and I wanted to know the sentece so I heard them say

 

Eviniz güzelmiþ

(or could it be Eviniz güzel varmiþ, but may be not correct because I hardly could hear v)

 

Isn´t miþ is a suffix for past tense....

 

Thanks for help {#lang_emotions_unsure}

 

 

4.       Uzun_Hava
449 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 03:42 am

 

Quoting cynicmystic

The first one simply states that your house is beautiful. The second one could mean various things depending on the context. It could infer jealousy, envy etc.

 

Nevertheless, as common as it is, it is an incorrect use of the form, and is very unlikely that you will be able to understand it unless you are familiar with the Turkish culture & mentality very well, as well as the langauge itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So does saying "eviniz çok güzeldir" convey an unambiguous complement?

 

5.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 03:55 am

No it doesn´t convey a compliment and it sounds non-native.

 

Either eviniz cok guze or eviniz cok guzelmis,

 

Eviniz cok guzeldir is grammatically correct, except native speakers wouldn´t use it. (I think)

6.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 09:17 am

 

Quoting Melek74

 

 

You can say "eviniz güzel" without the -miþ, when you add -miþ it implies inference or hearsay, so it´s closer in meaning to "I hear your house is beutiful" or "They say your house is beautiful", or I think you can also use it when you didn´t know the house was beautiful, you come to visit and there it is, you just realized or learned that it´s beautiful.

 

That´s how I understand it, but I´m a learner too, so maybe somebody more experienced or a native speaker can shed more light on it.

 

-miþ tense is also called learned tense (in addition to implying inference or hearsay). When you learn, realise or notice something it can be used.

 

Eviniz güzelmiþ translates as

I see that you have a beautiful house

or

I didn´t know your house is this beautiful.

That means you haven´t seen the house before. It´s your first time that you see the house.

7.       GulBahar
224 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 02:43 pm

Thank you all for replying and helping me...

(the scenes was just as you mentioned, it was first time visit)

 

So as conclusion..

It´s gramatically correct and it doesn´t imply past tense.

also,

it´s used when I see sth for the first time.

I mean I can´t use it for every day talk...

 

Please do correct me if I´m wrong...

Thanks again

8.       Melek74
1506 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 03:03 pm

 

Quoting GulBahar

Thank you all for replying and helping me...

(the scenes was just as you mentioned, it was first time visit)

 

So as conclusion..

It´s gramatically correct and it doesn´t imply past tense.

also,

it´s used when I see sth for the first time.

I mean I can´t use it for every day talk...

 

Please do correct me if I´m wrong...

Thanks again

 

It doesn´t imply past tense in the context it was used in your example.

 

I think you can use it for everday talk, depending on what you want to say.

 

Here´s a good explanation on the uses of the tense:

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_19

 

And if you go to the Language forum, there´re a few threads about -miþ, some of them started by me, it might be helpful to check them out.

9.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 03:12 pm

 

Quoting GulBahar

Thank you all for replying and helping me...

(the scenes was just as you mentioned, it was first time visit)

 

So as conclusion..

It´s gramatically correct and it doesn´t imply past tense.

also,

it´s used when I see sth for the first time.

I mean I can´t use it for every day talk...

You can. It may be used when you learn, realise or notice something etc. See my examples below.

 

Please do correct me if I´m wrong...

Thanks again

 

When you learn something.

Sorunun cevabý x imiþ (ben y sanýyordum).

The answer to that questions appears to be x (I thought it was y).

 

Suppose you left home for shopping and noticed that you don´t have any money with you.

Para almayý unutmuþum.

I have noticed that I forgot to take any money with me.

 

Suppose you are meeting with your friend somewhere. When you get there everybody is there.

A herkes gelmiþ.

I see that everybody has come (earlier than me).

10.       practicalcatlov
2 posts
 19 Feb 2009 Thu 05:47 pm

 

Quoting GulBahar

If I want to say "your house is beautiful" or "You have a beautiful house"

 

Why would you use -miþ as suffix.

 

In fact I´ve heard it in a series which was dubbed and I wanted to know the sentece so I heard them say

 

Eviniz güzelmiþ

(or could it be Eviniz güzel varmiþ, but may be not correct because I hardly could hear v)

 

Isn´t miþ is a suffix for past tense....

 

Thanks for help {#lang_emotions_unsure}

 

Actually you don´t have to use -miþ suffix. You can use "eviniz cok guzel". But Melek is right, when you say "eviniz guzelmis" it means that you just realized that the house was beautiful or you heard from somebody. In both situation people would understand your intention.

 

 

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