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Subject, (Its) Learning > Construction Problem?? help
1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 03 Apr 2009 Fri 02:13 pm

First I´ll list a few sentences from a ´Text Book´ by a native speaker of Turkish.  Then I´ll pose my problem.  I need kind help .

 

 Thank you.

 

[Copied as exactly as possible for a dyslexic like me]

 

The Book says:-            

                       

(1)   Bayan Gül piyano çalmasýný biliyor.

(2)   Yemek piþirmesini de biliyor.

(3)   Ingilizce konuþmasýný daha öðrenmemiþ.

(4) Ali yüzme öðrenmiþ, Cetin de yüzmesini biliyor.

 

You can spot the ODD bit [high lighted in red] >> why is it not, ´Ali yüzmesini ogrenmis´??

 

OR, CAN I REPHRASE THE ABOVE SENTENCES 1 - 4 AS:-

 

(a)   Bayan Gul piyano caliþma biliyor.

(b)   Yemek piþerme de biliyor.

(c)   Inglizce konuþma daha ogrenmemis.

(d)   Ali yüzmesini ogrenmis, Cetin de yüzme biliyor.

 

Grammatically speaking wil   a-b   acceptable?

 

Tazx1 

 

2.       dilliduduk
1551 posts
 03 Apr 2009 Fri 03:10 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

First I´ll list a few sentences from a ´Text Book´ by a native speaker of Turkish.  Then I´ll pose my problem.  I need kind help .

 

 Thank you.

 

[Copied as exactly as possible for a dyslexic like me]

 

The Book says:-            

 

(1)   Bayan Gül piyano çalmasýný biliyor.

(2)   Yemek piþirmesini de biliyor.

(3)   Ingilizce konuþmasýný daha öðrenmemiþ.

(4) Ali yüzme öðrenmiþ, Cetin de yüzmesini biliyor.

 

You can spot the ODD bit [high lighted in red] >> why is it not, ´Ali yüzmesini ogrenmis´??

 

OR, CAN I REPHRASE THE ABOVE SENTENCES 1 - 4 AS:-

 

(a)   Bayan Gul piyano caliþma biliyor.

(b)   Yemek piþerme de biliyor.

(c)   Inglizce konuþma daha ogrenmemis.

(d)   Ali yüzmesini ogrenmis, Cetin de yüzme biliyor.

 

Grammatically speaking wil   a-b   acceptable?

 

Tazx1 

 

 

OK, so as far as I know "... -masýný bilmek" is a wrong but very common usage that I think it is even accepted "correct" sometimes.

 

for these examples, you have to add "-ý":

(a)   Bayan Gul piyano çalýþmayý biliyor.

(b)   Yemek piþirmeyi de biliyor.

(c)   Ingilizce konuþmayý daha ogrenmemis.

(d)   Ali yüzme ogrenmis, Cetin de yüzme biliyor. OR, Ali yüzmeyi öðrenmiþ, Çetin de yüzmeyi biliyor.

 

in case of "yüzme" you can use it as "yüzme öðrenmek" or "yüzmeyi öðrenmek" because, "yüzme" is also a noun, the name of the swimming sport.

 

For example:

Tavla öðrenmiþ. He learned backgammon.

Satranç biliyor. She knows chess.

BUT

Tavla oynamayý öðrenmiþ. He learned (playing) backgammon.

Satranç oynamayý biliyor. She knows (playing) chess.

 

So in case of "yüzme" it could be both. But not for "yemek piþirmek" for example.

 

BUT it could for c:

Ýngilizce konuþmayý daha öðrenmemiþ.

OR

Ýngilizce öðrenmemiþ daha. OR Daha Ýngilizce öðrenmemiþ. (I don´t know why but when it is like that, "daha" sounds weird before öðrenmemiþ.)

 

I am not so good at explaining grammar but I tried to explain with examples, I hope you got it.

3.       Tazx1
435 posts
 03 Apr 2009 Fri 05:15 pm

 

Quoting dilliduduk

 

 

OK, so as far as I know "... -masýný bilmek" is a wrong but very common usage that I think it is even accepted "correct" sometimes.

 

for these examples, you have to add "-ý":

(a)   Bayan Gul piyano çalýþmayý biliyor.

(b)   Yemek piþirmeyi de biliyor.

(c)   Ingilizce konuþmayý daha ogrenmemis.

(d)   Ali yüzme ogrenmis, Cetin de yüzme biliyor. OR, Ali yüzmeyi öðrenmiþ, Çetin de yüzmeyi biliyor.

 

in case of "yüzme" you can use it as "yüzme öðrenmek" or "yüzmeyi öðrenmek" because, "yüzme" is also a noun, the name of the swimming sport.

 

For example:

Tavla öðrenmiþ. He learned backgammon.

Satranç biliyor. She knows chess.

BUT

Tavla oynamayý öðrenmiþ. He learned (playing) backgammon.

Satranç oynamayý biliyor. She knows (playing) chess.

 

So in case of "yüzme" it could be both. But not for "yemek piþirmek" for example.

 

BUT it could for c:

Ýngilizce konuþmayý daha öðrenmemiþ.

OR

Ýngilizce öðrenmemiþ daha. OR Daha Ýngilizce öðrenmemiþ. (I don´t know why but when it is like that, "daha" sounds weird before öðrenmemiþ.)

 

I am not so good at explaining grammar but I tried to explain with examples, I hope you got it.

 

 Thank you very much dilliduduk.  I don´t much care for grammar ... you explained the problem very well!

 

Tazx1

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