Merhaba,

this is first time i post here.. i am confused on the sonra/once rules....

i have read 2 examples:

1A. Hakan ve zeynep alýþveriþten sonra sinemaya gidiyorlar

1B. Onlar sinemadan önce alýþveriþe gidiyorlar

2A. Araba kullanmadan önce ehliyet alýyorum

2B. ahliyet aldýktan sonra araba kullanýyorum 

Now, i cant comprehend when to use (-DAn, -E) and when to use ( DIktan, mAdAn) ....

thanks in advance for your help

Haz

The very first examples you gave refer to substantive, and the second ones to verb.

Perhaps these also might be of help for you:

Forum posts:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_31462

Other resources:
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/3484/turkish-examples--5-uses-of-den.html
http://www.learningpracticalturkish.com/turkish-examples--5-uses-of-den.html


Anyway, my attempt is the following:

-mAdAn (önce) . Atonic participle
-has the meaning of circumstances of a time with a value of "before ...","until," etc. and refers to an act committed before action expressed by the predicate:

Öðretmen gelmeden önce ders baþlamýyor. — The lesson doesn´t start until teacher hasn´t come.

-mAdAn without önce refers to an act in a negative form ( "not having smth done...") and is opposite to the participle
- (y)ArAk.

Odaya selam vermeden girdi. — He entered a room not greeting (or not saying "hi").

-DIktAn sonra . Participle (time factor)
-  refers to an act that is pre-expressed by the predicate, meaning "after smth has been done...":

Ben geldikten sonra o okumaya baþladý. — After I came he started to read. (or he started reading)

Öðretmen dersaneye girdikten üç dakika sonra zil çaldý. — The bell rang three minutes after a teacher came to class.

Thanks alot,

That was really helpful.... i am studying right now at Tomer but i must admit that your forums are an excellent tool for improving skills..