I agree homosexuality is a private matter that´s why homosexuals do not fight for their right for the right to be branded. What I believe they fight for is the right not to be discriminated against. Of course it´s easier to hide one´s sexual preferrence than sex or skin colour but does that mean it has to be hidden? If you´re a woman, don´t you demand being treated equally to men? Or if you´re a person of colour, don´t you demand equal rights? So, why shouldn´t you demand equal rights if you´re gay? Will you make a worse employee merely because of your orientation? If you´re gay you should have the right not to live in hide-out. Gays should be able to live together, take mortgage, do their taxes together without being treated like freaks.

We cannot live pretending there are no homosexuals around us. There are many. And they just want to get the same opportunities heterosexual people get. What is wrong with that? Times change, attitudes change. Like you wrote above, in the ´60 or even ´70 women meant nothing without husbands in the west (I was actually surprised it lasted till so recently. My mum was born in 1957 and she is from the generation of women who made their own decisions about their life), and still there are women in Muslim countries who cannot even leave their house without a man by their side. Things have changed for women in the west and I´m sure so they will for those men-dominated women in the east. Wester women didn´t get their rights for free. They had to protest, march and demonstrate to be noticed and heard. Black people were subject to segregation until uhm 60s? Should they have been quiet about it? Had they been discreete and inconspicuous, they would still be banned from sitting in front seats on buses. They fought for their rights and now they have them. It will be the same with homosexual people. They will finally get what they should be entitled to. Of course there are people who´ll always be prejudiced against some groups, against women who are not chained to kitchen sinks, against coloured people sitting next to them on a train or gay people living in the apartment next door. Fortunately, we are a peculiar kind of species that gets used to what we get to know better. The more we hear about something the more normal it begins to seem. That´s why gay people encouraged to come out no longer have to pretend. They can live the life they want, not hurting anyone.

Most of us were born in the 20´th century. That century brought forth two major wars, long periods of recession, crises, invasions and civil wars. Literacy rates in most societies were nowhere near those attained through the end of the century.  In the first half of it, the Black people in America went through a systematic state racism, and in Germany, Jews faced one of the most horrible massacres in human history. There are also allegations about Turk´s murdering Armenians and many more.

The social structure in 20´th century was an elaboration of the  patriarchal setting of the previous century.  It was a period when unorthodox behaviour was severely punished. Women for example had won suffrage but were unable to use that right to their full benefit. Amid all these periods of transience, homosexuality has existed despite punishments and scorns.

Today, Turkey is discussing the eligibility of a Gay referee for his profession. Most readers of online newspapers carrying this think the referee has a right to do his job and his private preferences are nobody´s business. There are some people who criticize the referee on account that he requested exemption from military service due to his homosexuality. They say he is fit for refereeing and uneligable for military service. This is of course ridiculous. It is next to inconceivable for someone who is known to be a gay to perfom his military service without being harassed by people.  After all, military service is compulsory only for males. There is a catch here though; if someone is homosexual he is considered to be a male (or a female) who is aroused by his/her own sex. Some advocate the existance of a third sex based on preference which can make things easier from a legal point of view. After all, if you offer exemption to someone because of his sexual preferences why wouldn´t you offer the same exemption to conscientious objectors for example?

If by "conscientious objector" you mean  those guys elligible for military service,  but would try any means to avoid it.....let me tell you that I consider them to be smarter perverts than mere homosexuals.

That is one case where I would be prefering a homosesual´s company.

Well Ghandi for example was a conscientious objector of his own right. There are people in this world who think there should be no wars and to them the best way to achieve this end is by not associating in any military organization. Like homosexuals these people are oppressed by society and the legal system.

Would you support Muhammad Ali´s decision no to take up arms against Vietnamese army which he famously declared  in 1966 saying: "I ain´t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called me nigger." Because he is probably the most famous conscientious objector ever and his cause looks correct to me for all intents and purposes.

For my own part, I fulfilled my military service years ago. Although I was  the best among my fellow soldiers  at shooting the targets on the training ground (boasting) I never took interest in taking someone´s life nor did I actually like the weapons. If you ask me weapons must be regarded as cancerous tumors. We must be very sorry that we have to resort to them when it becomes necessary to defend our borders. Other than that, I wish they all disappeared from the face of the Earth and that people could live more peacefully together. While I do recognize the need for owning them, I still greatly detest them.

I applaud both Daydreamers and Vineyards brilliant eloquent posts!

After reading I noticed that some people are saying that "looking for some peace and light" is same as "moving a finger in a dirty mixture" ( I won´t say what this mixture is)

... or the foreigners living and working in the UK...

You have the whole thing screwed up in your mind.

Muhammad Ali was being pushed into war with a poor nation half the the world away by weapon dealers of a country that treated Muhammad himself as shit. Neither his country nor his own family or his own life were under immediate danger. His was not the story of a coward who rejected to stand up for his country when called for duty, but an honorable stand against dirty political games of war mongers. Story in Turkia is rather different. We are under threat from separatists, religioue fanatics and we have many homosexual friends - worse than enemies - all around us. We are not imperialists scheming to sit on anyone´s gas reserves, oil fields or land under the pretense of extending democracy. TC army is to protect the welfare and borders of the country, and any b..tard who turns away from duty will be treated as stipulated in associated laws. It is not because we love to fight that me, my sons and friends risked our lives at the borders.  Those we protected probably included your mother, wife and sisters, as well. If and when it is your turn to take over the watch, you will bloody well turn up for duty, or will be shot like the coward you are. Work for peace all you can - by all means - but do not even imagine there will be fancy word games with you, if you dont show up when called for.

Gandhi was a single citizen who fully felt the pain of the British yoke; very few others in millions of Indians shared his honorable frustration. He neither had an army nor had he the necessary military training. Those shortcomongs however, did not stop this great man from standing up and finally putting his life on line - for the honor and future of a country he believed in; against a world power, equipped with a pair of sandals, and a walking stick. How dare you compare this man to the faceless cowards you seem to side with?

If our country is in any danger, anything else is bulshit !.

Alfa now that you writing on a public forum, you should pay attention to what you write.  Statements like "the whole thing screwed up in your mind"  don´t deserve a proper answer and may start yet another flame war.  In the past I fell into so many of these traps set by those whose only concern is patronizing others. I am determined not to repeat it. I suggest you should do the same. Discuss ideas without attacking persons.

I do not particularly like exchanging ideas with likes of you, unless I am really pushed anyway.

There is nothing wrong in what I wrote in my post. If you did not feel very  proud when you read it, it is your problem.

If you don´t like exchanging opinions with people of my kind, you should not bother exchanging ideas in the first place. Save yourself from contradicting with yourself and stop hijacking this thread into your own alpha male territory where all opinions are subject to approval. This is supposed to be a free and democratic platform not a place where you can call people names at will.