i just watched ´Gegen die Wand´ ( Head On) by Fatih Akin in German and Turkish. I have to say i was very impressed by the quality of the film, but i was also a bit taken aback.  Is it reflectiong reality in Germany - if yes, to what extent? The characters, especially the girl seemed so very ´German´ in their attitudes, and so unlike any of the Turkish people i have met here in England! Is there a dual society?  i am interested what you think...

They call these people as the third generation Turks. They are the grandchildren of the Turkish workers hundreds of thousands of whom settled down in Germany in the 60´s. These first settlers have been holding on to their Turkish identities with some of them even refusing to learn German. 

The second generation of Turks were raised in Germany with strong ties with the homeland. They are fluent in both German  and Turkish. Culturally, they are still more Turkish than German due to their strict Turkish upbringing.

The third generation was born in Germany absolutely fluent in German and poor at Turkish. They have much less interest in the homeland. They are probably more German than Turkish.

In Germany, there is a rich vocabulary used for describing foregners especially Turks.  The words they use to refer to Turks is "kanaken" which is roughly equivalent to "niggers". Turks are the niggers of Germany. Those who are not that considerate even call them kakalaks which means cockroaches.

I really don´t know much about Turks in Germany, but a German relative has told me that his sister teaches at a school where there´s a lot of Turkish students, most of whom speak no German. Sadly, apparently it still happens, although I don´t know to what degree.

 Unfortunately the  German attitude depicted by vineyards is very true.I am reading a fascinating book now by Leo Lucassen ´The immigration threat"with the chapter devoted to Turks in Germany

http://books.google.pl/books?id=xao3YPj0IoEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=leo+lucassen&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 a read worth  being recommended

That is so terrible, but i think it is probably true... Actually i grew up in germany, but i left so long ago that the country seems rather foreign to me.

As a teenager i remember seeing Turkish kids my age at the train station.   i was of course forbidden to talk to them, and i never really questioned why, because i believed the horror stories being passed about. i eventually did try to make contact, but it ended rather disastrous....

i m appalled that the situation seems to have changed so little.  Muslims in the UK are rather well integrated for the most part, and the only ´prejudice´ i can think of against Turks here is that they are rather prim and proper and clean freaks, not necessarily a bad thing. 

The film is set in Hamburg, and the actors behave exactly like i´d expect Germans from that area to behave- drinking, drugs and having sex with random strangers.... (--- sorry if i offended any nice germans from there- i did not mean you!).---so it looks to me the third generation is rather too well adapted!

Exactly...I decided not to watch this movie since i had read enough spoilers about it. I can guess movie is full of histronics, eroticism and cliches like similar new generation Turkish movies. It can be interesting for a foreigner but not for Turks i am sure. I can be wrong, maybe my thoughts would be different if i had watched it. Anyway, as for the girl you said she seemed so "German", i dont know German culture much but do young German girls believe freedom is having sex whoever they want or sitting up all the night in bars dancing, having drugs? If the answer is yes, the girl is very "German", i agree...

I started watching this movie once and gave up after a few minutes - it seemed weird. However, later on Daydreamer wrote somewhere here that this was one of her favorite turkish movies, so I gave it another try, and it was definitely worth it.

 German culture is not like that at all!

 Armegon must have referred to Nietzschedefinitely not to Goethe