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About Word Order
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10.       si++
3785 posts
 24 Aug 2011 Wed 12:08 pm

Some statistics data for Turkish:

 

Percentage of different word orders
(based on 500 adult 100 child utterences)
Order Children / Adult Speech
SOV 46/48
OSV 7/8
SVO 17/25
OVS 20/13
VSO 10/6
VOS 0/0

Source: GENERATION OF TURKISH SURFACE FORM FROM A MORPHEMIC
LEXICON by BURCU KARAGÖL-AYAN

11.       Abla
3648 posts
 24 Aug 2011 Wed 12:18 pm

Thanks, si++. Now I have something to do (just like a moment ago I didn´t).

The children/adult statistics are quite interesting. The meaningful differences between mature and developing speakers seem to be in the way that standard word order is broken: adults send the modifiers to the end of the sentence probably because they have so much going on in their mind as children take the object to the front and go straight to the point.

 

12.       Abla
3648 posts
 24 Aug 2011 Wed 04:51 pm

It seems that every language needs to have a drop of luxury: something that is not necessary for delivering the message but is concerved as a typical feature of that language (and the point where learners are likely to stumble). A language can perfectly well do its job without grammatical gender of even articles but they are the luxury of German, for instance. The Russian have all their verbs in two aspects and it makes you think if there wasn´t a more simple way to do this. In Finnish we stubbornly modify adjectives and numerals and actually everything we can catch with bare hands in case and number. For Turkish, I think relatively strict word order combined with well marked sentence elements is this touch of luxury.



Edited (8/24/2011) by Abla

13.       si++
3785 posts
 24 Aug 2011 Wed 05:42 pm

 

Quoting Abla

It seems that every language needs to have a drop of luxury: something that is not necessary for delivering the message but is concerved as a typical feature of that language (and the point where learners are likely to stumble). A language can perfectly well do its job without grammatical gender of even articles but they are the luxury of German, for instance. The Russian have all their verbs in two aspects and it makes you think if there wasn´t a more simple way to do this. In Finnish we stubbornly modify adjectives and numerals and actually everything we can catch with bare hands in case and number. For Turkish, I think relatively strict word order combined with well marked sentence elements is this touch of luxury.

How many cases do you have in Finnish?We have 5 or 6 if you consider -la/-le a case suffix for instrumentalis.

And as for "relatively strict word order" of Turkish, which ones do you mean to have less strict word order than Turkish for example?

 

14.       Abla
3648 posts
 24 Aug 2011 Wed 07:57 pm

It depends. If you listen to (or try to learn) standard Turkish the first impression is strict word order. But of course, if you look at the whole field of language Turkish speakers have an excellent chance to chain their words as they please and it´s hard to find more freedom in any language. That´s what I mean: chances are but the TV-reporter still ties himself to a certain word order and even in the colloquial language flow 50 per cent of the sentences are well organized.

I feel I led myself into a trap...

About Finnish. Thanks for asking, we have 15 cases but a couple of them are non-productive nowadays. Especially the eight different locatives increase the number.



Edited (8/24/2011) by Abla

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