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Arab Question
1.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Sep 2011 Sat 08:44 pm

Does anyone know a list of Turkish loanwords in Arabic? I have seen something in the net but I wasn´t convinced.

Why on Earth do you call Morocco Fas? In every language I know it´s Morocco or Maghreb or something similar which refer to ´sunset, west´.

2.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Sep 2011 Sat 08:57 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Does anyone know a list of Turkish loanwords in Arabic? I have seen something in the net but I wasn´t convinced.

Why on Earth do you call Morocco Fas? In every language I know it´s Morocco or Maghreb or something similar which refer to ´sunset, west´.

 

You can try nişanyan sözlük:

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?s=detay&dq=&dt=&dd=Ar&dk=

 

Choose dil as Ar. and click Ara on top-left.

 

I tried fas, but it doesn´t answer your question. However vikipedi (Turkish wikipedia) has this (I assume you have no problem in understanding it):

Türkçe´ye Fas olarak geçmesinin nedeni ise ülkede bulunan Féz şehrinde eskiden Osmanlı Fes leri üretilirmiş,bu isim zamanla kalıplaşıp Fas ismini almıştır.

Aida krishan liked this message
3.       Abla
3648 posts
 17 Sep 2011 Sat 10:14 pm

I´m sorry I´m so simple but I can´t figure out how I could find tr > ar loanwords in a Turkish etymological dictionary. Of course I don´t understand all those marks and abbreviations but if I wanted to know the origin of an Arabic word shouldn´t I look for it in an Arabic dictionary instead? (I am not after detailed information, I was looking for an easier way.)

I know that hanım is a Turkish word used in some Arab dialects. Ar. is not mentioned at all in the Nişanyan hanım article. Maybe this is a prove of its Turkish origin in Arabic. If it´s not taken from Arabic it must have been given there, isn´t it?

Then I tried abla which in Egyptian means ´nanny´ or ´big sister´. I didn´t know the origin, but Arabic was not mentioned. Is this another hit?

So you mean if I know a common word I can check it this way...but if I make the search with Dil:Ar doesn´t it exactly bring me the 4075 words which can´t be borrowed tr > ar because they are ar > tr?

Don´t overestimate me, si++.

The Fas matter is clear. Moroccans were the fez a lot until today.

 



Edited (9/17/2011) by Abla

4.       si++
3785 posts
 18 Sep 2011 Sun 07:54 am

 

Quoting Abla

I´m sorry I´m so simple but I can´t figure out how I could find tr > ar loanwords in a Turkish etymological dictionary. Of course I don´t understand all those marks and abbreviations but if I wanted to know the origin of an Arabic word shouldn´t I look for it in an Arabic dictionary instead? (I am not after detailed information, I was looking for an easier way.)

I know that hanım is a Turkish word used in some Arab dialects. Ar. is not mentioned at all in the Nişanyan hanım article. Maybe this is a prove of its Turkish origin in Arabic. If it´s not taken from Arabic it must have been given there, isn´t it?

Yes hanım is Turkish origin. It is han (khan) + possessive suffix

Similarly: begüm = beg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bey)+ possessive suffix (used in India and Pakistan)

Then I tried abla which in Egyptian means ´nanny´ or ´big sister´. I didn´t know the origin, but Arabic was not mentioned. Is this another hit?

So you mean if I know a common word I can check it this way...but if I make the search with Dil:Ar doesn´t it exactly bring me the 4075 words which can´t be borrowed tr > ar because they are ar > tr?

Yes they are Arabic loans in Turkish.

Don´t overestimate me, si++.

The Fas matter is clear. Moroccans were the fez a lot until today.

 

 

Excuse me. I was careless. I thought you were asking for Arabic loans in Turkish. I don´t know any source you check for Turkish loans in Arabic. At worst you can try it this way.

 

Also note that there are some Arabic words invented by Turks and entered Arabic from Turkish.

 

For example, cumhuriyet looks like an Arabic word but it is first used (invented) by Turks and entered Arabic.

 

5.       Abla
3648 posts
 18 Sep 2011 Sun 08:52 am

It doesn´t matter, si++. It was good brain excercise to try to figure out what you might have ment. Besides, I found this way to check the origin of a common word which I know. I also understood one thing which is so simple that it is embarassing even to say it: how could a Turk who doesn´t speak Arabic know that in Egypt they call a room oda? This brought into light the angle error that I had when I first wrote the question: because I know some broken Turkish and further more some broken street Arabic I see the common vocabulary with different eyes and wonder things that a native speaker of each language wouldn´t give a thought.

But I found an interesting list here:

http://baheyeldin.com/linguistics/turkish-words-borrowed-in-modern-arabic.html.

There are obvious mistakes in it. Some of the words have gone to the other direction which can be checked even in your dictionary link. But it shows some interesting features. The list is short. Probably it is not complete but it´s still conspiciously short. It seems that Turks have been much more open to foreign influence at least what comes to language. The -ci suffix which produces names of professions seems to have been adapted into Arabic and been very productive later on. Names of military ranks are still Turkish, at least in colloquial language.

An interesting feature are the Arabic proper names which have first been borrowed into Turkish and then returned back into Arabic in their Turkish outfits. Maybe the journey they made gave them extra prestige in the speakers´ ears.

6.       si++
3785 posts
 18 Sep 2011 Sun 10:09 am

Thanks for the link. Yes it is probably incomplete. There may be more.

 

By the way, while goggling I found this link about Turkic loans in English (it still gives some info):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tatar-l/message/494

7.       Abla
3648 posts
 18 Sep 2011 Sun 10:19 am

Nice. I like the etymological dictionary link. I will probably be playing with it later.

Now I am about to take off the plug from the wall. I have a flight to catch in the afternoon via Istanbul to Cairo. My intention is to stay there for a few months. I will probably be offline for some while until I get a connection to the house. But I will keep on studying Turkish. Thanks for everything, si++ and all the others. I feel worse about leaving the site than leaving my home. I will be back soon inşallah.

8.       si++
3785 posts
 18 Sep 2011 Sun 10:38 am

Have a nice trip!

 

It was fun for me to discuss various things about Turkish with you.

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