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What is -ki doing here?
1.       Abla
3648 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 09:42 am

If the independent conjunction ki in the learner´s opinion is found in strange places it´s part of the game. But what comes to the conjunction -ki I thought I usually understand what it stands for.

-ki makes adjectives from derived nouns and thus often acts as an equivalent to English relative clauses.

I was in peace with this until I found examples like this:

         "Ne yazıyorsun o peçeteye?"

         "Hislerimi," diye mırıldandı taburenin üzerindeki, şimdi eskisi kadar taşlaşmış

         görünmüyordu.

If it was an adjective, where was the main word that it modifies? After returning to the sentence many times I came to the thought that it must be a noun here and refer to the person who was on the row. This would make it actually the subject of the sentence. But I´m not sure.

I found some prove in my grammar book that -ki can also produce nouns, but this use is somewhat strange to me. If someone has in mind more simple examples it would be so nice.

 

2.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 11:32 am

 

Quoting Abla

If the independent conjunction ki in the learner´s opinion is found in strange places it´s part of the game. But what comes to the conjunction -ki I thought I usually understand what it stands for.

-ki makes adjectives from derived nouns and thus often acts as an equivalent to English relative clauses. It´s a suffix not conjunction. The conjuction ki is an import from Persian.

I was in peace with this until I found examples like this:

         "Ne yazıyorsun o peçeteye?"

         "Hislerimi," diye mırıldandı taburenin üzerindeki, şimdi eskisi kadar taşlaşmış

         görünmüyordu.

If it was an adjective, where was the main word that it modifies? It is present participle form ermek (to be). The verb has disappeared over time.  After returning to the sentence many times I came to the thought that it must be a noun here and refer to the person who was on the row. This would make it actually the subject of the sentence. But I´m not sure.

I found some prove in my grammar book that -ki can also produce nouns, but this use is somewhat strange to me. If someone has in mind more simple examples it would be so nice.

 

 

Adjectives:

Önce-ki = the one that is before

Sonra-ki = the one that is after

Bugün-kü = the one that is (for) today

etc.

 

Usual stuff:

Masada-ki kitap = the book (which is) on the table

Koşarken-ki resmim = The picture (which is) of me (when I was) running

3.       Abla
3648 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 11:53 am

I was talking about ki and -ki separately. My problem was in -ki this time.

Still I didn´t understand what taburenin üzerindeki refers to in the example. To the person who is speaking?



Edited (9/27/2011) by Abla

4.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:05 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I was talking about ki and -ki separately. My problem was in -ki this time.

Still I didn´t understand what taburenin üzerindeki refers to in the example. To the person who is speaking?

 

Yes. It means "the one on the stool"



Edited (9/27/2011) by gokuyum

MarioninTurkey liked this message
5.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:26 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I was talking about ki and -ki separately. My problem was in -ki this time.

Still I didn´t understand what taburenin üzerindeki refers to in the example. To the person who is speaking?

 

Oh I see. When there is no word it modifies it means:

 

x-ki = the one/the thing (which is) x

 

Evde-ki =  the one (which is) at home

Berkenin-ki = the one (which is) Berke´s (or Berke´s shortly)

 

The one being referred usually omitted if it is clear from the context.

Masada-ki tabak = the plate (which is) on the table

Masada-ki = the one (i.e. plate) (which is) on the table

Masada-kiler = the ones (i.e. plates etc.) (which are) on the table

 

Even if it is not clear from the context:

Masada-ki = the thing (i.e. something) (which is) on the table

Masada-kiler = the things (which are) on the table

 

 



Edited (9/27/2011) by si++

6.       Abla
3648 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:51 pm

So -ki can make independent nouns as well. Can I go one step further and say Moskova´daki ´what happened in Moscow´ (in certain context, of course)?

7.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:59 pm

 

Quoting Abla

So -ki can make independent nouns as well. Can I go one step further and say Moskova´daki ´what happened in Moscow´ (in certain context, of course)?

 

Yes you can but it would mean:

The person (who is) in Moskow.

or

The thing (which is) in Moskow.

 

Moskovadakiler = Things (which are) in Moskow.

or

Things (which are curently happening) in Moskow.

or

People (who are curently) in Moskow.

or

People (who live) in Moskow.

 

8.       Abla
3648 posts
 28 Sep 2011 Wed 12:19 am

Thanks, si++, gokuyum. Maybe this is a topic many times discussed here but this opened some knot in my head.

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