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The Name of Istanbul
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20.       stumpy
638 posts
 12 Apr 2012 Thu 03:16 pm

Quote:lemon

You people even dont realize that you worship Sun and Moon. None of you even make an attempt to conduct a research why you have Sun and Moon symbols.

Faith must be verifiable. There are must be proofs and witnesses to claims made by people you choose to believe.

Carefull lemon, christians are notoriouse for venerating religious relics and icons.  christianety in itself is a very pagen religion.

There is the communion waffer that represents jesus´s body and the wine, representing his blood.  The famouse or infamouse shroud of Turin which supposedly was used to wrap jesus after his death and so many more relics.

Relics of Jesus, Mary and the Apostles

  • Jesus´ baby blanket - Aachen, Germany
  • Jesus´ foreskin ("Holy Prepuce") - Coulombs Abbey, France
  • Jesus´ loin cloth worn on the cross - Aachen, Germany
  • Pieces of the true cross - many locations, but primarily Santo Toribio de Liébana, Spain
  • Mary´s cloak - Aachen, Germany
  • St. Peter´s remains - St. Peter´s Basilica, Vatican City
  • St. Mark´s remains - St. Mark´s Basilica, Venice, Italy

Relics of Church Fathers

  • St. Ignatius of Antioch (d. c.107) - St. Peter´s Baslica, Vatican City
  • St. Augustine´s Elbow - Annaba(formerly Hippo Regius) Algeria
  • St. Augustine - Pavia, Italy
  • St. Athanasius (d. 373) - Santa Croce, Florence, Italy
  • St. Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444) - Alexandria, Egypt
  • St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274)- Saint-Servin, Toulouse, France

Relics of Other Saints

  • Venerable Bede - Durham Cathedral, Durham, England
  • St. Cuthbert (d. 687) - Durham Cathedral, Durham, England
  • St. Anthony of Egypt (d. 356) - near Vienne
  • St. Francis of Assisi (d. 1226) - Assisi, Italy
  • St. Teresa of Avila (d. 1582) - Alba de Tormes, Spain
  • St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 27 - Calabria

 

So before pointing out things about other religions, just remember, when you point at someone you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.

One last thing, when Constantinople fell to the hands of the Sultan, the defeated were not slaughtered, they were permitted to stay and keep practecing their religion.

Something to be said about that, seems tolerance and acceptance was much more prelevant back then than it is today.

 

Bambib and foka liked this message
21.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Apr 2012 Sat 03:36 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

Oh really? You have a crucifix symbol. So according to your poor logic, does it mean you worship a crucifix?

 

Crusifix symbolizes a tool on which Jesus died as was prophesized. I dont worship a crusifix (many evangelical Christians dont). Crusifix is a dead object. It is not God. Only God must be worshipped.

According to your wonderful logic why do you worship Moon and Sun? 

22.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Apr 2012 Sat 03:38 pm

Stumpy, darling sorry. I do not read your posts (I usually find nothing interesting in them). Dont get upset but I am not going to reply to you. 

23.       stumpy
638 posts
 14 Apr 2012 Sat 04:12 pm

it does not upset me sweet lemon, just remeber your religion was considered a sect at one time and the only reason it came to be was with the greed and money hungry men at the head of the "church" who fought, stole and killed in the name of it

 

24.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 14 Apr 2012 Sat 05:31 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Crusifix symbolizes a tool on which Jesus died as was prophesized. I dont worship a crusifix (many evangelical Christians dont). Crusifix is a dead object. It is not God. Only God must be worshipped.

According to your wonderful logic why do you worship Moon and Sun? 

1)There is a crescent symbol. And some people  believe it symbolises a moon god. Maybe before Islam it was symbolising it. But after Islam, it became a symbol of Muslim countries. Now it is not a symbol of moon God.

2)You should know this. People dont easily give up their cultures, symbols, rituals. They transform them. And they make them compitable with the new religion. You can find many parallel things in Christianity with paganism. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm Look at this site and you will see.

3)We dont worship a moon God. We worship same God of Christians. God of Jesus, Moses, David and etc...

4)Knowledge is power.

 

 

 

 

25.       Abla
3648 posts
 14 Apr 2012 Sat 07:18 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Zztr6nhTE

26.       lemon
1374 posts
 15 Apr 2012 Sun 12:01 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

1)There is a crescent symbol. And some people  believe it symbolises a moon god. Maybe before Islam it was symbolising it. But after Islam, it became a symbol of Muslim countries. Now it is not a symbol of moon God.

2)You should know this. People dont easily give up their cultures, symbols, rituals. They transform them. And they make them compitable with the new religion. You can find many parallel things in Christianity with paganism. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm Look at this site and you will see.

3)We dont worship a moon God. We worship same God of Christians. God of Jesus, Moses, David and etc...

4)Knowledge is power.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for confirming my thoughts re: religions. As far as I remember you were not muslim. You seemed to be a seeker. 

Although you were right in your post above I dont think you know much of religions and their history. 

I dont know a single person here on TC who would match me in this regard. So I simply often give up on arguing. It makes me tired, it makes me feel talking to a bunch of pre-school children. 

Take care!

 

 

 

27.       stumpy
638 posts
 15 Apr 2012 Sun 12:08 am

enlighten us sweet lemon by telling us what your religion is

28.       Abla
3648 posts
 15 Apr 2012 Sun 01:21 am

 

http://gizlenentarihimiz.blogspot.com/2010/03/fatih-sultan-mehmed-ve-entelektuel.html

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/II._Mehmed

http://www.kimkimdir.gen.tr/kimkimdir.php?id=261

 

"Fatih Sultan Mehmed bir Rönesans entelektüeliydi"

 

 

Historians have called Mehmed II the Conqueror (reign 1444-46, 1451-81) a renaissance ruler and intellectual. The description of his skills and knowledge is impressive. In addition to Islamic education he was also taught science and military skills since his childhood. Mehmed II spoke seven languages: in addition to his native language Ottoman Turkish he mastered Arabic, Farsi, Hebrew, Chaldean, Slavic, Italian, Greek and Latin.

 

In Istanbul Mehmed II had a library of thousands of volumes. He had a special interest against chronicles. He was a notable lyrist also. He attended philosophical discussions and was so curious about Christian dogmatism rumors began to spread in Europe:

 

Hatta bu durum Avrupa´da Fatih´in Hristiyanlığa meylettiği şeklinde yorumlanmış ve Papa II. Pius padişahı Hristiyanlığa davet eden bir mektup kaleme almıştı. Tarihçi İlber Ortaylı bu konuyla ilgili olarak Fatih´in şüphesiz itikadı olduğunu fakat sofu derecesinde koyu bir Müslüman olmadığını belirtmiştir. ´This situation was even interpreted in Europe as if the Conqueror was on the verge of Christianity, and Pope Pius II wrote a letter to the Sultan inviting him to Christianity. Concerning this issue historian İlber Ortaylı has stated that Mehmed II undoubtedly was a believer but his religious level was not extreme.´

 

It was part of the ruler´s wisdom to invite the best experts of different fields to serve the Empire:

 

Bilime büyük önem veren Fatih Sultan Mehmed yabancı ülkelerdeki büyük bilginleri İstanbul´a getirtirdi. Nitekim Astronomi bilgini Ali Kuşçu kendi döneminde İstanbul´a geldi. Ünlü Ressam Bellini´yi de İstanbul´a davet ederek kendi resmini yaptırdı. ´Mehmed II the Conqueror who considered knowledge important had great scholars from foreign countries brought to Istanbul. Thus the astronomer Ali Qushji eventually came to Istanbul. The Sultan also invited the famous artist Bellini to Istanbul and had his own portrait painted.´

 


 

 



Edited (4/15/2012) by Abla

29.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 15 Apr 2012 Sun 03:52 am

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Thank you for confirming my thoughts re: religions. As far as I remember you were not muslim. You seemed to be a seeker. I am a Muslim seeker now

Although you were right in your post above I dont think you know much of religions and their history. You are wrong. I read a lot about them. For example  this week I read 4 books about Kabalah and mystism.

I dont know a single person here on TC who would match me in this regard. So I simply often give up on arguing. It makes me tired, it makes me feel talking to a bunch of pre-school children. You should show your wisdom if you have. What do you say about similarities between paganism and christianity? You blame us being pagans. What would you say if I blamed you with the same thing?

Take care! You too.

 

 

 

 

 



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30.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Apr 2012 Mon 09:16 pm

Gokuyum, I read your post. I have no patience now. Not in mood to reply at the moment.

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