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same words different meaning when order changes
1.       acute
202 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 08:25 am

the order in which words are place can change the meaning of the sentence


ben kalemi adamdan aldım

I got the pen from the man

ben adamdan kalemi aldım

it is the pen that I got from the man

kalemi ben aldim adamdan

it is I who got the pen from the man

aldım kalemi ben adamdan

I did get the pen from the man

is there any set rule  to help me to understand this better with  because looking at all sentences if I tried to translate word for word I would have correct words and wrong meaning.

 

 

Donkeyoaty liked this message
2.       tunci
7149 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 12:57 pm

 

Quoting acute

the order in which words are place can change the meaning of the sentence


ben kalemi adamdan aldım

I got the pen from the man

ben adamdan kalemi aldım

it is the pen that I got from the man

kalemi ben aldim adamdan

it is I who got the pen from the man

aldım kalemi ben adamdan

I did get the pen from the man

is there any set rule  to help me to understand this better with  because looking at all sentences if I tried to translate word for word I would have correct words and wrong meaning.

 

 

 

It wouldnt be totaly correct if we say the meanings are changing by moving the word order. Since the action "almak" doesnt change.  Instead it is better to say that putting " the stress [emphasis] " on words by placing the words just before the predicate.

ben kalemi adamdan aldım  ---> SOV  =  Subject Object Verb

I got the pen from the man --> This is a proper sentence in normal word order.


ben adamdan kalemi aldım

it is the pen that I got from the man --> "the pen" is stressed.


kalemi adamdan ben aldim.  ---> "ben" is stressed

it is I who got the pen from the man


aldım kalemi ben adamdan

I did get the pen from the man  ---> this is an inverted sentence as the predicate [aldım] is moved into the begining of the sentence whereas in the previous sentences the predicate is in its usual place [in the end].



Edited (4/21/2012) by tunci
Edited (4/21/2012) by tunci

Moha-ios, metehan2001, Donkeyoaty and acute liked this message
3.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 03:13 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 

aldım kalemi ben adamdan

I did get the pen from the man  ---> this is an inverted sentence as the predicate [aldım] is moved into the begining of the sentence whereas in the previous sentences the predicate is in its usual place [in the end].

Often a poetic usage.

 

metehan2001 liked this message
4.       acute
202 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 05:20 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

It wouldnt be totaly correct if we say the meanings are changing by moving the word order. Since the action "almak" doesnt change.  Instead it is better to say that putting " the stress [emphasis] " on words by placing the words just before the predicate.

ben kalemi adamdan aldım  ---> SOV  =  Subject Object Verb

I got the pen from the man --> This is a proper sentence in normal word order.


ben adamdan kalemi aldım

it is the pen that I got from the man --> "the pen" is stressed.


kalemi adamdan ben aldim.  ---> "ben" is stressed

it is I who got the pen from the man


aldım kalemi ben adamdan

I did get the pen from the man  ---> this is an inverted sentence as the predicate [aldım] is moved into the begining of the sentence whereas in the previous sentences the predicate is in its usual place [in the end].

Thank you for the excellent explanation. Now I can see more errors in my attempts to translate poetry. The meaning can change so much by  not looking at the SOV placement.

I am   {#emotions_dlg.laugh_at}SOL  without my SOV {#emotions_dlg.applause} guide beside me everytime I read something. I can imagine it would even be harder to grasp this in conversation.

 

köpek Tunci ısırdı

köpek ısırdı Tunci

Tunci ısırdı köpek

 

 



Edited (4/21/2012) by acute [:)]

5.       tunci
7149 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 06:06 pm

 

Quoting acute

 

Thank you for the excellent explanation. Now I can see more errors in my attempts to translate poetry. The meaning can change so much by  not looking at the SOV placement.

I am   {#emotions_dlg.laugh_at}SOL  without my SOV {#emotions_dlg.applause} guide beside me everytime I read something. I can imagine it would even be harder to grasp this in conversation.

 

köpek Tunciyi ısırdı ---> normal sentence with stressed on "Tunci"

köpek ısırdı Tunciyi --> inverted sentence

Tunciyi ısırdı köpek ---> inverted sentence

-------------------------

dont forget the accusative marking dear Acute.

and I hope that example of yours wont come true .. I mean me being bitten by a dog.

 

 

metehan2001 liked this message
6.       acute
202 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 06:26 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 

thank you again, hopefully you won´t get bit

metehan2001 liked this message
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