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Test-123
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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10.       Abla
3648 posts
 09 Dec 2013 Mon 01:51 pm

Henry is right. The -ki word is an adjective attribute. That is why I also find

 

                         Hikmet´in dört yaşında oğlu var

 

strange. We have obviously missed something here. (That is probably why I often think Turks tend to forget the -ki´s...)

 

I find it difficult to see dört yaşında oğlu as the object here. If that is the object where is the subject then? Could it be that it has to do with the indefiniteness of that constituent (var/yok sentences typically introduce items for the first time)?

 

What if there was a real object:

 

                          ?Hikmet dört yaşında oğlunu bize tanıttı     ?

11.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 09 Dec 2013 Mon 04:06 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

May be those texts were something like this ? 

 

Hikmet´in dört yaşındaki oğlu çok güzel konuşuyor.

 Subject                               

Hikmet´s 4 year old son is speaking very well.

Hikmet´s son who is 4 year old is speaking very well.

 

whereas ;

Hikmet´in dört yaşında [bir] oğlu var.

 Subject                    Object 


Hikmet has 4 year old son.



 

Dear tunci I think subject here is : Hikmet´in dört yaşında oğlu. We cant seperate it. I am thinking about why sometimes we use -ki and why sometimes we dont use it. When I have an answer I will post it

 



Edited (12/9/2013) by gokuyum

12.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 Dec 2013 Mon 09:35 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

Dear tunci I think subject here is : Hikmet´in dört yaşında oğlu. We cant seperate it. I am thinking about why sometimes we use -ki and why sometimes we dont use it. When I have an answer I will post it

 

 

Dearest Gokuyum, I considered it  as  "to have "  [sahip olmak], therefore to me "Hikmet" is the subject who is having 4 year old son.   I mean, Hikmet is the doer who is performing the action of  "having 4 year old son " 

However, If we think your way, it makes sense too. Since " there is  a son of Hikmet who is 4 year old son " , In other words, " 4 year old son of Hikmet exists" , so the whole lot except "var [exists] " could  be considered as a subject. Your thinking is right.

 Thank you for pointing out this , Üstat.



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13.       tunci
7149 posts
 09 Dec 2013 Mon 09:59 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

What if there was a real object:

 

                          ?Hikmet dört yaşında oğlunu bize tanıttı     ?

 

 Hikmet dört yaşındaki oğlunu bize tanıttı     ?

We have to add  -ki  to describe his son [his son´s age] . Hikmet introduced his son whois 4 year old.


Otherwise the sentence may still make sense but semantically impossible sentence. Since it may sound like " Hikmet introduced us his son while he [Hikmet] was 4 year old. "  Logically it is impossible that Hikmet can have a child when he was 4 year old. Since sometimes we Turks drop the - iken , such as ;

Hikmet dört yaşında[y]ken ] piyano çalmaya başladı.

Hikmet started to play piano when he was 4 year old.

 



Edited (12/9/2013) by tunci

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