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gelene kadar / gelinceye kadar...
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1. |
03 Jan 2014 Fri 02:29 am |
Biz buraya gelene kadar neler çektik
Why in this sentence above say ´´gelene´´ kadar and not ´´gelinceye kadar´´?
İ know ´´gelen´´ mean ´´the one that come´´ giden=the one that go yapan=the one that do nefret eden=the one that hate
And so on...But i never before saw suffixes e/a are added to them, as it is in sentence i gave. So what does it mean and when do you use it?
Edited (1/3/2014) by Turkish2412
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2. |
03 Jan 2014 Fri 03:11 pm |
Biz buraya gelene kadar neler çektik
Why in this sentence above say ´´gelene´´ kadar and not ´´gelinceye kadar´´?
İ know ´´gelen´´ mean ´´the one that come´´ giden=the one that go yapan=the one that do nefret eden=the one that hate
And so on...But i never before saw suffixes e/a are added to them, as it is in sentence i gave. So what does it mean and when do you use it?
Here are some notes I have regarding -e kadar, -ene kadar (until)
Use -e kadar for nouns (places, time words)
Use -ene kadar for verbs
(Note: this is a different construction to the ´en´ of the ´verbal adjective´ you mentioned)
Use -inceye kadar for verbs
Ben gelene kadar burada bekle
Ben gelinceye kadar burada bekle
Both these sentences have identical meanings
Wait here until I come
Sometimes to avoid enen or anan repetition, the inceye kadar version is preferred.
For example
Evlenene kadar bu evde oturdum (I lived in this house until I married)
Evleninceye kadar bu evde oturdum. (preferred, sounds better in Turkish)
Çocuk uyanana kadar rahatız (we were at ease until the child woke up)
Çocuk uyanıncaya kadar rahatız (preferred because it lacks the anana)
And below are some more explanations from si++ (with a few alterations)
-ene kadar makes adverbial clauses. It is equal to "until ...".
Dün yürüyerek eve geldim. = I came home by walking yesterday.
Now we can put an until
before it in English, but the Turkish sentence requires some re-engineering.
First you need strip off the suffixes after the verb and add "-ene kadar", so:
Dün yürüyerek eve gelene kadar
Now you have a adverbial clause in Turkish, but you may need to take care of the subject of it. If it is the same as the main clause you can leave it as it is, but if it is different, you need to add it (notice bold blue characters below).
Dün yürüyerek eve geldim -> Dün yürüyerek eve gelene kadar
or -> Dün ben yürüyerek eve gelene kadar
Assume we have a main clause with different person as subject.
Dün ben yürüyerek eve gelene kadar, Fatma evden ayrılmıştı. = Fatma had left until I came home by walking yesterday.
Also notice that there is no tense suffix in Turkish subclause, the tense depends on the main clause.
ben eve gelene kadar, Fatma evden ayrılmasın = don´t let Fatma leave until I come home.
ben eve gelene kadar, Fatma evden ayrılmayacakmış = Fatma says she won´t leave until I come home.
ben eve gelene kadar, Fatma evden ayrılmadı = Fatma didn´t leave until I came home.
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3. |
03 Jan 2014 Fri 06:43 pm |
Thank you, i really like your explanations.
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4. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 06:03 am |
Thank you
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5. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 09:51 am |
Evleninceye kadar bu evde oturdum. (preferred, sounds better in Turkish)
Çocuk uyanıncaya kadar rahatız (preferred because it lacks the anana)
Hi, can you explain why -inceye kadar is preferred? You state it but all your examples are about gelene kadar. Seems to me that -anana is easier to pronounce?
Also when I google it, gelene kadar gets 6.600.000 hits and gelinceye kadar gets only 1.700.000 hits.
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6. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 02:39 pm |
Biz buraya gelene kadar neler çektik
Why in this sentence above say ´´gelene´´ kadar and not ´´gelinceye kadar´´?
İ know ´´gelen´´ mean ´´the one that come´´ giden=the one that go yapan=the one that do nefret eden=the one that hate
And so on...But i never before saw suffixes e/a are added to them, as it is in sentence i gave. So what does it mean and when do you use it?
-en/-an form of a verb is present participle and can also function as an adjective.
ağlayan bebek - crying baby
sadece 10 TL´den başlayan fiyatlarla - with prices starting from just TL 10
gitmek isteyen Ali - Ali is the one who wants to go
...karar verecek olan ben değilim - it´s not me the one who will decide...
the word "gelene" in your example sentence is not present participle but gerund.
gel.e.n.e (not gel.en.e)
gel
gel.e (gerund)
when -e kadar added to this, the buffer letter n appears between the two e´s
yumurtalar kaynayana kadar bekledi - s/he waited until the eggs began to boil
kayna
kayna.(y).a
kayna.(y).a.(n).a
altıyı on geçeye kadar bekledim - I waited until ten past six
geç
geç.e
geç.e.(y).e
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7. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 03:20 pm |
Sometimes to avoid enen or anan repetition, the inceye kadar version is preferred.
For example
Evlenene kadar bu evde oturdum (I lived in this house until I married)
Evleninceye kadar bu evde oturdum. (preferred, sounds better in Turkish)
(evlen)-ene kadar vs (evlen)-inceye kadar.
The shorter, the better.
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8. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 03:57 pm |
(evlen)-ene kadar vs (evlen)-inceye kadar.
The shorter, the better.
So -inceye is not preferred?
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9. |
11 Apr 2017 Tue 09:01 pm |
So -inceye is not preferred?
as a gerund, -ince is far more widely used than -e
bakınca, gelince, okuyunca, etc.
but, for example, we never say
üçü beş geçince
we always say
üçü beş geçe
-e kadar
gele+e kadar => gele(n)e kadar
gelince+e kadar => gelince(y)e kadar
both are grammaticaly correct but not equally used.
probably because -ene kadar is shorter and easier, or because older than -inceye kadar,it is preferable..
but, after all, it´s your choice, so pick either one and you should be fine
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10. |
12 Apr 2017 Wed 09:07 am |
Scapel explained it very good.
By the way, this is a very technical question. Feel free to use in daily life, no one understands the difference.
What does a person understand?
Ben gelene kadar bekle (wait until I come)
Ben gelinceye kadar bekle (wait until I come)
so same...
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