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sigara içme yasağı/ sigara içmenin cezasi
1.       pekka
46 posts
 13 Jan 2016 Wed 06:10 am

hello

sigara içme yasağı

sigara içmenin cezasi

why the first sentence doesn´t have nin on içme but the second sentence has nin on içme

thanks

2.       Henry
2604 posts
 13 Jan 2016 Wed 09:45 am

 

Quoting pekka

hello

sigara içme yasağı

sigara içmenin cezasi

why the first sentence doesn´t have nin on içme but the second sentence has nin on içme

thanks

 

My thoughts as a learner.....

Sometimes noun compounds don´t use the genitive suffix (n)in, and sometimes they do.

For your example

sigara içme yasağı = smoking ban (the ban of smoking)

and some more examples

sigara içme alışkanlığı = smoking habit (the habit of smoking)

sigara içme odası = smoking room (the room for smoking)

if you think of sigara içme as the English word  ´smoking´, then you can see how the noun compounds can be made. These are describing the noun that follows, to become a smoking ban/habit/room. 

Those were examples of Berlirtisiz Ad Tamlaması

Your next example is of Berlirtili Ad Tamlaması

Sigara içmenin cezası = smoking´s fine, the fine for smoking a cigarette

This is a specific fine (for smoking) and has a value (80TL?)

more examples

sigara içmenin faydaları = smoking´s benefits, the benefits of smoking {#emotions_dlg.noway}

sigara içmenin zararları = smoking´s harms, the harm of smoking {#emotions_dlg.yes}

Notice how the English translation also uses the possessive ending [..´s ]

There´s a difference between the possessive (belirtili) and indeterminate (belirtisiz) construction translations in English.

Smoking xxxx   or smoking´s xxxx

The same for the Turkish

sigara içme xxxx(s)i   or sigara içmenin xxxx(s)i 

Kelebek84, pekka and nativespeaker liked this message
3.       pekka
46 posts
 14 Jan 2016 Thu 08:20 pm

thanks but is there any way to distinguish between them or we have to memorize it, I didn´t understand the english logic

4.       JNQ
465 posts
 15 Jan 2016 Fri 11:25 am

Henry´s excellent explanation in short:

 

sigara içme yasağı = the smoking ban (in Dutch or German this would be one word)

sigara içmenin yasağı = the smoking´s ban / the ban of/on smoking (sounds a bit odd like that in English but in Turkish that´s the way to say it)

 

They both mean practically the same.

The second one may be more specific like, of all the bans that apply in this town, this is the ban of smoking, or, speaking of how/when the smoking ban was applied...

So it depends on how you want to use it which one to choose.

> If you want to say there is a smoking ban, I think you would say "sigara içme yasağı var".

> If you want to say people totally ignore the smoking ban, I think you would use "sigara içmenin yasağı". (They don´t ignore other rules but this one they do.)

 

I trust natives will correct me if I´m wrong.

pekka liked this message
5.       pekka
46 posts
 15 Jan 2016 Fri 11:22 pm

so I understood that verb with nin is used with verbs and without nin is used with others like 

en sert sigara içme yasağı ispanya´da

sigara içme yasağı var

sigara içmenin cezası 30 ile 600 bin euro arasında değişiyor

is that right



Edited (1/16/2016) by pekka
Edited (1/16/2016) by pekka

6.       pekka
46 posts
 16 Jan 2016 Sat 07:18 pm

please I need an answer

7.       JNQ
465 posts
 18 Jan 2016 Mon 01:32 pm

 

Quoting pekka

so I understood that verb with nin is used with verbs and without nin is used with others like 

en sert sigara içme yasağı ispanya´da

sigara içme yasağı var

sigara içmenin cezası 30 ile 600 bin euro arasında değişiyor

is that right

I don´t recognize that rule, I don´t think that´s correct. "(n)in" just means ´s.

Ülkenin en güzel manzarası: the country´s most beautiful views

Türkiye´nin iklimi": Turkey´s climat

(On verbs it can also mean imperative mood but that´s a different subject)

Wow, a 600.000 euro penalty for smoking, is that in the Emirates or something?

 

 

 



Edited (1/18/2016) by JNQ
Edited (1/18/2016) by JNQ
Edited (1/18/2016) by JNQ

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