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Bir -i (Indefinite accusative problem with verbs)
1.       aurum
80 posts
 22 Feb 2017 Wed 02:02 am

Hello. I am wondering if anyone could explain to me why some verbs require indefinite nouns to take the accusative case. I also wonder if there is a list of verbs like that.

Let me give you an example:

"Sokakta bir çocuğu öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

Obviously, "child" in both sentences is indefinite. If it were definite, it would take the accusative case in both cases, as follows:

"Sokakta çocuğu öptüm." AND "Sokakta çocuğu gördüm."

Both verbs "öpmek" and "görmek" use the accusative case when it comes to definite nouns.

As far as I know, the majority of verbs do not use the accusative case when it comes to indefinite nouns. But there are still plenty of them that DO break the rules, as the case is with "öpmek".

 

I hope my question is clear enough. What are some other verbs that work like the verb "öpmek". Most importantly, WHY does it work that way?

Thank you!



Edited (2/22/2017) by aurum [Misspelled word]

denizli liked this message
2.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 24 Feb 2017 Fri 12:19 am

 

Quoting aurum

Hello. I am wondering if anyone could explain to me why some verbs require indefinite nouns to take the accusative case. I also wonder if there is a list of verbs like that.

Let me give you an example:

"Sokakta bir çocuğu öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

Obviously, "child" in both sentences is indefinite. If it were definite, it would take the accusative case in both cases, as follows:

"Sokakta çocuğu öptüm." AND "Sokakta çocuğu gördüm."

Both verbs "öpmek" and "görmek" use the accusative case when it comes to definite nouns.

As far as I know, the majority of verbs do not use the accusative case when it comes to indefinite nouns. But there are still plenty of them that DO break the rules, as the case is with "öpmek".

 

I hope my question is clear enough. What are some other verbs that work like the verb "öpmek". Most importantly, WHY does it work that way?

Thank you!

"Sokakta bir çocuğu öptüm" here object(bir çocuğu) is definite not indefinite. When you use accusative case (-ı,-i,-u,-ü ) you make that object definite. So function of accusative case in Turkish is to make objects definite. I guess we have a different understanding of accusative case in Turkish.I guess in English grammar if a word is a direct object of a verb it is accusative no matter it is definite or indefinite but in Turkish translations I see that the term "accusative case" is only used for definite direct object. So this creates confusion for me. 

So I will try to explain things without using "accusative" term. Some verbs want its objects to be definite(ends with -ı,-i,-u,-ü ), some don´t. Maybe there is such a list. I am sure some Turkish dictionaries can be useful too.

 



Edited (2/24/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/24/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/24/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/24/2017) by gokuyum

Frankosevreze liked this message
3.       JNQ
465 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 12:37 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

Quoting aurum

"Sokakta bir çocuğu öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

 

"Sokakta bir çocuğu öptüm" here object(bir çocuğu) is definite not indefinite.

 

.. Apart from this being a very odd sentence (who goes around kissing indefinite children in the street??)

.. what do both sentences respectively mean? Especially the first one? If it´s not indefinite?

 



Edited (2/27/2017) by JNQ

4.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 02:03 pm

 

Quoting JNQ

 

 

.. Apart from this being a very odd sentence (who goes around kissing indefinite children in the street??)

.. what do both sentences respectively mean? Especially the first one? If it´s not indefinite?

 

Object in the first sentence is grammatically definite because "bir çocuğu" has the -u suffix but I think it is a mistake to make it definite because "bir" already makes it indefinite.  It must be "Sokakta bir çocuk öptüm." If we want to make it definite we must remove "bir" and add -u suffix after "çocuk":" Sokakta çocuğu öptüm." Sometimes we do this kind of mistakes in Turkish.

 



Edited (2/27/2017) by gokuyum

JNQ and denizli liked this message
5.       denizli
961 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 06:18 pm

gokuyum congratulations on reaching 5,000 Turkish Class Points! Çok güzel! This is a feat very few in the world have accomplished! Very impressive.

Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!... {#emotions_dlg.applause}



Edited (2/27/2017) by denizli

6.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 06:48 pm

 

Quoting denizli

gokuyum congratulations on reaching 5,000 Turkish Class Points! Çok güzel! This is a feat very few in the world have accomplished! Very impressive.

Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!... {#emotions_dlg.applause}

 

Thank you  

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