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İt had,İ had it
(21 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       derya
1360 posts
 01 Sep 2006 Fri 05:13 pm



I had my home painted ,I think this sentence suggests that somebody else painted your home,you didnt paint it by yourself.Yep,its passive but in English there was a special term for this passive,to have something done..its a construction,offf so far for my grammar knowledge you know what,there was a grammar book written by a bulgarian linguist it was called:the unexplainable in the grammar explanations..something like lost in translation hehehe

11.       CANLI
5084 posts
 01 Sep 2006 Fri 05:22 pm

hee heee,i guess now we need 2 expert grammar not just 1
One at English,and the other in Türkçe lol

12.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 01 Sep 2006 Fri 05:25 pm

Quoting CANLI:

İ think there is something wrong in my understanding too

but
As i know,if i won't be getting confused in English too

That,in English

İ had my home painted .....is still passive

Am i wrong here ?isn't it passive in English ? :-S


I dont know in English but it is not passive in Turkish.

Active: Etken
Passive: Edilgen
???: Ettirgen

The third one is what you mean.

13.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 01 Sep 2006 Fri 05:26 pm

maybe factitive?

14.       CANLI
5084 posts
 03 Sep 2006 Sun 11:48 am

As i know

İ had my home painted

İs passive in English,

That means the meaning of passive is different between English and Türkçe ?

İn English it is more wider than Türkçe ?

15.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 03 Sep 2006 Sun 11:53 am

Quoting CANLI:

As i know

İ had my home painted

İs passive in English,

That means the meaning of passive is different between English and Türkçe ?

İn English it is more wider than Türkçe ?


I dont know wide or not, but what you say is factitive ettirgen. It is neither edilgen (passive) nor etken (active).

16.       CANLI
5084 posts
 03 Sep 2006 Sun 12:17 pm

Yavaş,yavaş caliptrix

Özür dilerim,this factitive is in English grammar,or Türkçe grammar ?

İ'm sorry,but i am a bit confused

17.       YiiD
2 posts
 05 Sep 2006 Tue 01:54 am

factitive can be used in english such as:
I made him to bring it.
but in turkish we use suffixes(as we always) such as:
Onu getir-t-ti-m
The first suffix "t" is the factitive suffix. "ti" is the "witnessed" past tense suffix, changed according to the consonant and vowel harmony. "m" is, as you should know, refers to "I".
As you see "onu" is equal to the word "it" in the first sentence.
As we call in turkey ettirgen(or facititive) has its name on it(in turkish: adı üstünde olmak). I dont know it whether it exists in english or not but it means, you can understand the subject or the topic that it refers by just reading the word. lets analyze the word. et-tir-gen - "et(-mek)" is to do, "ettir(-mek)" is to make somebody do something, "ettirgen" is an adjective that refers to the thing which makes somebody do something.

edilgen is a completely different subject. it is exactly passive. Lets look at the example:
Turkish is widely spoken in Turkey.
again translate the sentence:
Türkçe Türkiye'de yaygın olarak konuşulur.
As you see, Turkish=Türkçe, widely= yaygın olarak(not yaygınca, you can use it but it sounds strange[word deviates from yaymak=to spread]), in Türkey = Türkiye'de.
Let's look at the verb.
konuş-u-l-ur
konuş(-mak)=to speak, to talk(actually this verb is "reden" in german, it is the most exact translation, it does not have an exact translation in english)
"ul" is the passive suffix. "ur" refers to "they".

Hope these help you.

18.       bod
5999 posts
 07 Sep 2006 Thu 12:12 am

Yes indeed YiiD - that is my understanding of "facative"

Here is a formal definition:
Of or constituting a transitive verb that renders to a thing a certain character or status and that in English can take an objective complement modifying its direct object, such as make in That makes me angry, or elect in We elected him Treasurer.

19.       bod
5999 posts
 07 Sep 2006 Thu 12:20 am

Quoting caliptrix:

See the other examples:
Yazı yazıldı
Writing was wrote

Kalem tutuldu
Pencil was hold

Çocuk vuruldu
Child was shot(or shooted?)

Gemi batırılır
The ship is submerged

Adam kurtarılacak
Man will be saved



A few corrections to your English caliptrix:

Writing was written / The writing was written
A pencil was held / The pencil was held
A child was shot / The child was shot

Most nouns in English require an article (a/an/the) but a few don't (e.g. "writing") which cannot take an indefinate article (a/an) - I can't think of any rule that would tell you which nouns cannot take an indefinate article!

20.       CANLI
5084 posts
 07 Sep 2006 Thu 12:20 am

Çok Tşk YiiD

İt is very clear now,anladım

And i want add something,from my understanding,that (t ) suffix,and (N ) suffix,are among the suffix which creat a new verb from the original verb,so other suffix,if it is tenses,conditional,negative,...or whatever, comes after them
Because it is already a new verb now

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