could anyone help me to understand this? how come sometimes people use -mayi/meyi instead of mek/mak, for example - i began to run = kosmayi basladim, wouldnt this be kosmak basladim?

is there specific words that you should use meyi instead of mek, or doesnt it matter? i find this really confusing, and no books i have explain it so could anyone help?

thanks a lot if you can xxx

Amann! I would like to know this too. My book does explain it a little.. it also tells difference between 'meyi' and 'mayí' (im not too sure if those are right, but it says that there are two types of this kind of suffix, that means 'to -verb-'.)
Such as.. i began to run, i love to swim etc..

But i don't understand the difference. so an explanation would be welcome for me too

Hello Mavi Okyanus/Deli Kızın,

We don't use -mayı/meyi instead of mak/mek.

kosmak basladim > This structure isn't there in Turkish Grammer

i began to run > kosmayi basladim (incorrect) >koşmaya başladım

Koşmak = to run
Koş = base form of koşmak
Koşma = name of the action (noun) > running


Koşmaya başlamalısın
You have to begin to run

Koşmayı öğrenmelisin
You have to learn running

Koşma-ya and Koşma-yı are noun in these sentences

I have looked at my book and it says" the negative of all verms except for those parts of " to be " which are based on the stem i is made by adding me/ma to the stem.To the negative stem so formed are added tense-and other suffixes. The main accent in the sentence comes on thesyllable beore the me/ma.

istemek to want;istedim,i wanted
isememek not to want istemedim i did not want

It also says it is the act of something eg
gelme = the act of coming
bakma = the act of looking

i don't know if this will help you.

thanks everyone, i understand running is kosma and swimming is yuzme etc but why add the -yi etc?
ahhh its hard!

"geçişli" v.s. "geçişsiz" verbs
==========================================

In Turkish, there are two kinds of verbs:

1) Those that can be used with an object, or can refer an object directly (geçişli fiil/verb))
2) And, those, that cannot be used with an object or directly refer to it. (geçişsiz fiil/verb))

In the example that you provided above, "baslamak" (to begin) is a "geçişsiz" verb, so it cannot go together with an object.
It does not directly map to English. But I developed a simple test for it..

geçişli verb test:
--------------------
Assume that the verb that you are working on is V (e.g., to swim)
1. Construct a phrase by combining the verb with the English word tomato:
V + tomato (e.g.,swim tomato)
2. Check the meaning to see if such an action expressed by the phrase is ever possible to happen (now or in the future..)

3. If you can say yes, then the verb is geçişli, otherwise it is geçişsiz.


Examples:
-----------------------
1. to begin (basla-mak)

construct the phrase: begin tomato
check if it is a possible action: No, as it does not make sense or is not possible now and in the future
decision: geçişsiz.

2. to take

construct phrase: take tomato
check if it is a possible action: yes
decision: geçişli

3. to swim

construct phrase: swim tomato
check if it is a possible action: no
decision: geçişsiz

4. to cut

construct phrase: cut tomato
check if it is a possible action: yes
decision: geçişli

5. to watch

construct phrase: watch tomato
check if it is a possible action: yes
decision: geçişli


Part 2: Using verbs as objects in a sentence
---------------------------------------------

1. First, you need to convert the verb to a noun by adding either -me or -ma suffix accordign to vowel harmony.

example: kos-mak (verb) --> kos-ma (noun)
kes-mek (verb) --> kes-me (noun)

2. Then you need to further convert the noun form to object by adding either -ye/-ya or yi/yı.
kos-ma-(yı?ya)

Now, let's go over the example posted in the first message of this thread and try to understand when to use -ye/-ya and when to use yi/yı.

Let's firstly tag the sentence with parts of speech tags (POS):

(Ben) kosmayi(obj) basladim(verb).

In this sentence, we are trying to use the verb "kos-mak" as an object rather than in its original form which is verb.
How you do this depends on the type of the verb of the sentence. The verb of the sentence is not the one that we are trying to make an object out of it, but the one tagged as verb in the sentence (basla-mak in our example)

a) Making objects from verbs if the verb of the sentence is geçişsiz:

object form = verb(in base form) + ye/ya
(to decide whether you should use -ye or -ya is determined according to vowel harmony.)

example: kos-ma-(yi?ya) basladim.
1. Tag the sentence with POS: kosma(obj) basladim(verb)
2. Run the test for geçişli/geçişsiz on the verb of the sentence (basla-mak)-->geçişsiz
3. Since it is geçişsiz add the suffix -ya rather than -yi --> kos-ma-ya
that is: kosmaya basladim.

b) Making objects from verbs if the verb of the sentence is geçişli:

object form = verb(in base form) + yi/yı
(to decide whether you should use -ye or -ya is determined according to vowel harmony.)

example: kos-ma-(yi?ya) sevdim.
1. Tag the sentence with POS: kosma(obj) sevdim(verb)
2. Run the test for geçişli/geçişsiz on the verb of the sentence (sev-mek)-->geçişli
3. Since it is geçişsiz add the suffix -yı rather than -ya --> kos-ma-yı
that is: kosmayi sevdim.

Part 3: Use of the suffix -ma/me to put a verb into negative verb.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Another use of suffix -ma/me is to make the meaning of a verb negative.
It is usually used for imperative sentences:

Example: kosma! (do not run)
okuma! (do not read)
gitme! (do nor go)

> How to differentiate between different use of the suffix -me/ma
1. Tag the sentence using POS.
2. If the verb that you are studying is tagged as verb in the sentence, then -me/ma is used to give negative meaning..
Otherwise, the suffix converts the verb into an object.

Finally, I am done. The procedures/tests that I have given above are completely thought and written ad hoc, so they may not apply for complicated cases, but they should work for "beginner" level sentences.
Hope this helps.

ali