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4050.       armegon
1872 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 08:12 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.

 

Yes, thats also kind of traditional wearing of Arab women but the wrong thing is to impose this wearing as an order of Islam which is the case mostly and to label women as nonmuslims who do not wear it. Islam firstly advices modesty, and wearing according to this, is kinda relativity that diversifies from environment to environment, society to society and culture to culture. I can understand anyone has right to wear anything freely if it does not restrict the freedom of others but i am against if this type of wearing is used for politically like a uniform or a symbol and if burka is forced on women to oppress them which are those some of the case we encounter unfortunately. So i happen to agree with AE & DD who were i think criticizing these situations.

4051.       alameda
3499 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 08:14 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

Ah, TC!  Nice to see that the mere mention of burqas can still get a conversation going!<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

While looking for info on this, I found this....

 

Of women the pope and veils....

 

Look....even Nancy Reagan, Laura Bush and Queen Elizabeth are wearing veils!  I must admit, they are not the all covering burqas though. ....but one can see the link to an older tradition.

 

Here is a photo of Jackie Kennedy at the funeral of JFK......in her widow veil

 

 

4052.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 09:33 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

While looking for info on this, I found this....

 

Of women the pope and veils....

 

Look....even Nancy Reagan, Laura Bush and Queen Elizabeth are wearing veils!  I must admit, they are not the all covering burqas though. ....but one can see the link to an older tradition.

 

Here is a photo of Jackie Kennedy at the funeral of JFK......in her widow veil

 

 

 

 My grandmother always wore a veil to church....but nobody ever forced her to.  She did it out of her sense of tradition.  I definately don´t have a problem with covering if it is your choice.....but I whole heartedly agree that many women who wear burkas are forced to be a certain way in a male dominated society.  I had the opportunity to spend time in Saudi Arabia and women MUST wear a burka or they can get in a lot of trouble with the religious police....who are EVERYWHERE! 

 

Perhaps many western women don´t understand why a woman would choose to wear one here in the west because it is not required.  It is hard to understand why someone would voluntarily wear one.  To us western women it is a symbol of oppression.



Edited (10/14/2009) by Elisabeth

4053.       armegon
1872 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 10:02 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

women MUST wear a burka or they can get in a lot of trouble with the religious police....who are EVERYWHERE! 

 

This is only valid for muslim women in KSA, if you are not, you dont need to wear burqa or cover your head. Further to this mostly Saudi women wear veil, Masri women do not, even Jordanian women do not cover their heads thats what i observed so far. I have also seen a group of Saudi women beating mutavva lol

 



Edited (10/14/2009) by armegon

4054.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 11:36 pm

 

Quoting armegon

 

Quoting Merih

 3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.

 

Yes, thats also kind of traditional wearing of Arab women but the wrong thing is to impose this wearing as an order of Islam which is the case mostly and to label women as nonmuslims who do not wear it. Islam firstly advices modesty, and wearing according to this, is kinda relativity that diversifies from environment to environment, society to society and culture to culture. I can understand anyone has right to wear anything freely if it does not restrict the freedom of others but i am against if this type of wearing is used for politically like a uniform or a symbol and if burka is forced on women to oppress them which are those some of the case we encounter unfortunately. So i happen to agree with AE & DD who were i think criticizing these situations.

 

did the hell freeze or what? No way

Thank you, A Thank you, thank you! that´s exactly what I meant

 

Merih - of course some women are happy to be wife number two or three, just as some are happy to be hit and abused by their husbands/boyfriends. Some are happy to marry whoever their family sold them to and some prefer their future not to depend on the amount of goats their prospective husband is willing to pay. The point is that law should be the same for everyone and gave the same protection and chances to everyone. If you come from a family that lets you decide what to wear, it´s no problem but what if your family forces you to wear burka (ok, I always say burka when I mean niquab, they´re basically the same for me) don´t you think that unless the country you live in supports you, you can´t win? I see where the Canadian Muslims are coming from, it´s means of stopping radicals from enslaving their daughters/wives. And they have a point there.

 

Regarding burkini, it does not resemble swimwear and it´s basically no different from jeans and turtle-neck. Where did I imply that I am in favour of swimming naked? Swimsuits work just fine. And they don´t have to be bikinis, there´s a lot of choice these days

4055.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 07:21 am

Do you realise that in almost all of these post :

 

You are offering alternative clothes - so they are not allowed to wear what they like, unless the clothes are approved by you

 

Like Elisabeth said: you can´t believe  that any women would chose to wear a burqa / Abaya if choice was given, and you are wrong.

 

And yes, this clothing shows that you are a Muslim, and that is exactly the purpose.

 

And we are definitely not discussing Saudi, Afghanistan and Iran as they force women and abuse women.

4056.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 07:26 am

 

Quoting armegon

 

Quoting Merih

 3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.

 

Yes, thats also kind of traditional wearing of Arab women but the wrong thing is to impose this wearing as an order of Islam which is the case mostly and to label women as nonmuslims who do not wear it. Islam firstly advices modesty, and wearing according to this, is kinda relativity that diversifies from environment to environment, society to society and culture to culture. I can understand anyone has right to wear anything freely if it does not restrict the freedom of others but i am against if this type of wearing is used for politically like a uniform or a symbol and if burka is forced on women to oppress them which are those some of the case we encounter unfortunately. So i happen to agree with AE & DD who were i think criticizing these situations.

 

 Yes, I know it exist in Turkey,lots of women, wearing hijab or burqas:

May offend you, by saying you are not a Muslim,

They may use it as a political uniform

They may get paid to wear so,

 

But it doesn´t mean you can jugde everyone with the same view.

 

In Arab countries Abaya /  Burqa is a national dress, and it is Islamic too.  That is what the previous Muslim women were wearing. 

 

And believe me if you were living in 50 degrees plus %80 humidity 6 months of the year, you wouldn´t want to wear anything tight or open.

4057.       _AE_
677 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 09:47 am

 

Quoting Merih

 In Arab countries Abaya /  Burqa is a national dress, and it is Islamic too.  That is what the previous Muslim women were wearing. 

 

And believe me if you were living in 50 degrees plus %80 humidity 6 months of the year, you wouldn´t want to wear anything tight or open.

 

 Burka national dress and historic?!?!?!!!!  Headscarfs may have been, but burka?!?!  lol

 

In my country women used to wear big crinoline dresses - does that mean we should wear them now? lol

4058.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 11:01 am

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Burka national dress and historic?!?!?!!!!  Headscarfs may have been, but burka?!?!  lol

 

In my country women used to wear big crinoline dresses - does that mean we should wear them now? lol

 

for once, I have to agree with you. Big smile

 

in fact according to Muazzez Ilmiye Cig who is one of the few sumerian experts around the world, burka was the traditional dress code of Sumerian prostitutes while Arabs didn`t have such an outfit at the time.

 

and actually, if you go to the remote villages in Anatolia you will not be able to see any single woman wearing burka.they only wear a simple headscarf which can be seen in the villages of europe as well.

 

4059.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:13 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

for once, I have to agree with you. Big smile

 

in fact according to Muazzez Ilmiye Cig who is one of the few sumerian experts around the world, burka was the traditional dress code of Sumerian prostitutes while Arabs didn`t have such an outfit at the time.

 

and actually, if you go to the remote villages in Anatolia you will not be able to see any single woman wearing burka.they only wear a simple headscarf which can be seen in the villages of europe as well.

 

 

 Well, the story I heard is actually different.

 

When Ataturk was changing the dress code for the country, - which is a big big thing -, these women in this particular village did not want to change.  But Ataturk did want his countryto look like the European countries.  So the village council declared that all the prostitues will have to wear a burqa whenever they go out, otherwise they will be punished.  After that all the respectable women took of their abayas and head scarves.

 

4060.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:18 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

for once, I have to agree with you. Big smile

 

in fact according to Muazzez Ilmiye Cig who is one of the few sumerian experts around the world, burka was the traditional dress code of Sumerian prostitutes while Arabs didn`t have such an outfit at the time.

 

and actually, if you go to the remote villages in Anatolia you will not be able to see any single woman wearing burka.they only wear a simple headscarf which can be seen in the villages of europe as well.

 

 

 regarding the history of burqa:

ref:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

 

This type of dress has its origins with desert times long before Islam arrived. It had two functions. Firstly as a sand mask in windy conditions. This would be worn by men and women and is still common today. For women only the masking of the face and body was used when one group was being raided by another. These raids often involved the taking of women of child bearing age. With all women hidden behind a veil, and the home team fighting back, the chances of being taken were substantially reduced as the women of child bearing age could not be quickly distinguished from the very young and the old.[citation needed]

 

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