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Janissaries
(64 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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20.       Lapinkulta
0 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 09:25 pm

Quoting alameda:

Quoting thehandsom:

Actually before anybody declares how proud to be, lets look at the other side of the coin..
Lets switch greeks and turks:

Imagine greeks have kidnapped a lot of turkish boys and brainwashed them/made them christians and later on, made them kill their turkish parents and families.
what would be your reaction to that then, when that turkish boy comes out and says im proud of what greeks did to me and to my turkish ancestors, im now a proud greek!!




Let's look at what was happening in the rest of the world at that time. Let's look at the different treatment of captives and the social potential offered them by the captor society.

The Transatlantic Slave Trade

Later through piracy he took 300 Africans from a Spanish vessel, making it profitable for him to head for the West Indies where he could sell them for money and trade them for provisions. Queen Elizabeth I rewarded him for opening the slave trade for the English by knighting him and giving him a crest that showed a Negro’s head and bust with arms bound secure (Hale [1884] 1967 Vol. 3:6.

Slave Traffic from Africa 1451-1870

1. 1451–1600: beginning (1/4 million)
2. 1601–1700: growing (1.3 million)
3. 1701–1811: peaking (6 million)
4. 1811–1870: declining (2 million)

a Righteous and Progressive idea

In the year 1457, the Council of Cardinals met in Holland and sanctioned, as a righteous and progressive idea, the enslavement of Africans for the purpose of their conversion to Christianity, and to be exploited in the labor market as chattel property.

This devilish scheme speedily gained the sanctimonious blessing of the Pope and became a standard policy of the Roman Catholic Church and later the Protestant churches, enduring three centuries. And thus the ghastly traffic in human misery was given the cloak of respectability and anointed with the oil of Pontifical righteousness in Jesus' name. And so, the slave trade began, inaugurating an era that stands out as the most gruesome and macabre example of man's disregard for the humanity of man.



thnaks for your great post...

21.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 09:26 pm

I just wonder what that had to do with the topic?

22.       Lapinkulta
0 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 09:26 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

Let's look at what was happening in the rest of the world at that time. Let's look at the different treatment of captives and the social potential offered them by the captor society.


I find this to be a very disturbing comment. Here we have a conversation about something rather horrible and in your comment you are basically changing the topic of discussion and saying that as long as someone else is doing something worse, the first action is justified. This pretty much goes along your general lack of criticism of Islam and Turkey and never confronting the real issue. Very dreadful.



when western did anything,u call it ''True'', when Turkish did same thing,u call it ''false''

23.       catwoman
8933 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 09:38 pm

Quoting Lapinkulta:

when western did anything,u call it ''True'', when Turkish did same thing,u call it ''false''


No, I don't. You are not listening.

24.       lady in red
6947 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 09:46 pm

Quoting Lapinkulta:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

Let's look at what was happening in the rest of the world at that time. Let's look at the different treatment of captives and the social potential offered them by the captor society.


I find this to be a very disturbing comment. Here we have a conversation about something rather horrible and in your comment you are basically changing the topic of discussion and saying that as long as someone else is doing something worse, the first action is justified. This pretty much goes along your general lack of criticism of Islam and Turkey and never confronting the real issue. Very dreadful.



when western did anything,u call it ''True'', when Turkish did same thing,u call it ''false''



Sorry - not sure I see the relevance of this comment to catwoman's post. :-S

25.       alameda
3499 posts
 30 Mar 2008 Sun 10:14 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

Let's look at what was happening in the rest of the world at that time. Let's look at the different treatment of captives and the social potential offered them by the captor society.



I find this to be a very disturbing comment. Here we have a conversation about something rather horrible and in your comment you are basically changing the topic of discussion and saying that as long as someone else is doing something
worse, the first action is justified. This pretty much goes along your general lack of criticism of Islam and Turkey and never confronting the real issue. Very dreadful.



Not at all catwoman, in order to get a proper view of events one should consider the larger context they are relevant to. Handsom has spoken about something happening in a part of the world at a time. I am showing what else was going on at that same time. It is a matter of context."

2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting "

context

My comment was not a criticism, or was it to condone, it was simply to point out the historical context.

26.       karpusqueen
0 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 12:25 am

Quoting alameda:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting janissary:

thanks for the informationIm really affected by ur reseach. I know that I make ur mind busy much. Im sorry if ı took ur time)

yes. my grand grand father was non muslim. and maybe Im greek, polish or something. BUT Im proud of being turkish (citizen of Turkey). I love my country, my flag, my hometown, other ethnic parts of this land, fishes in the water, birds on a tree, flowers on high mountains, the people who love everything about my country...And Elhamdulillah Im muslim. I look forward future and I work for my country to develop better.



İ like what you wrote too jan




Me too



And I liked it too - straight from the heart

27.       catwoman
8933 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 12:46 am

Quoting alameda:

Not at all catwoman, in order to get a proper view of events one should consider the larger context they are relevant to. Handsom has spoken about something happening in a part of the world at a time. I am showing what else was going on at that same time. It is a matter of context."

2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting "

My comment was not a criticism, or was it to condone, it was simply to point out the historical context.


I am not sure why handsom made this post in the first place, but probably to shed some light on the origin of janissary's nickname. Quite strange why someone would choose this nickname, knowing the meaning of it, don't you think?
I suppose that was the purpose of this thread and not to examine the past and its social contexts (BTW, please, I am not that ignorant to need your links with the meaning of this word!!!).

28.       catwoman
8933 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 12:49 am

Quoting karpusqueen:

Quoting alameda:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting janissary:

thanks for the informationIm really affected by ur reseach. I know that I make ur mind busy much. Im sorry if ı took ur time)

yes. my grand grand father was non muslim. and maybe Im greek, polish or something. BUT Im proud of being turkish (citizen of Turkey). I love my country, my flag, my hometown, other ethnic parts of this land, fishes in the water, birds on a tree, flowers on high mountains, the people who love everything about my country...And Elhamdulillah Im muslim. I look forward future and I work for my country to develop better.



İ like what you wrote too jan



Me too



And I liked it too - straight from the heart


Knowing how nationalistic he is, I find it to be really naive to like what he said because "it came from his heart".. :-S

29.       karpusqueen
0 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 12:50 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

Let's look at what was happening in the rest of the world at that time. Let's look at the different treatment of captives and the social potential offered them by the captor society.


Quoting catwoman:


I find this to be a very disturbing comment. Here we have a conversation about something rather horrible and in your comment you are basically changing the topic of discussion and saying that as long as someone else is doing something worse, the first action is justified.



Alameda has already explained why she responded to Handsom's subject in the way she did and I agree that it had relevance. It's not about justifying a terrible action by giving examples of others, it's not that simplistic.

Quoting catwoman:


This pretty much goes along your general lack of criticism of Islam and Turkey and never confronting the real issue. Very dreadful.



This is not a very nice thing to say. There is no rule that says that members should criticise Islam and Turkey as a prerequisite of their membership,is there? Of course not, although I think some members think that is all this site is for. This is dredging up the same old accusations catwoman and has nothing at all to do with the topic. It is more of a personal judgement(I'm trying very hard not to use the word attack) of another member.

There are many people who read these threads but never post . They read the threads to learn. The learning process is much more enriching if the diet is more varied i.e. not all one way traffic. There is always more than one side to a story and a good debate should highlight these. Some people even put forward another side simply for the sake of the debate and not because it might be something they absolutely believe in . . . it's called playing Devil's Advocate, I'm sure you've heard of this.

Handsom's information was indeed very interesting and I have learned facts from him and Alameda. However, I learned something far more valuable from Janissary on this thread.

Thank you Janissary.

30.       karpusqueen
0 posts
 31 Mar 2008 Mon 01:07 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting karpusqueen:

Quoting alameda:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting janissary:

thanks for the informationIm really affected by ur reseach. I know that I make ur mind busy much. Im sorry if ı took ur time)

yes. my grand grand father was non muslim. and maybe Im greek, polish or something. BUT Im proud of being turkish (citizen of Turkey). I love my country, my flag, my hometown, other ethnic parts of this land, fishes in the water, birds on a tree, flowers on high mountains, the people who love everything about my country...And Elhamdulillah Im muslim. I look forward future and I work for my country to develop better.



İ like what you wrote too jan



Me too



And I liked it too - straight from the heart


Knowing how nationalistic he is, I find it to be really naive to like what he said because "it came from his heart".. :-S



So I'm naive in your eyes and it makes you puke. Hope you feel better for it

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