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Expressing Yourself in English & Turkish - How Do You Cope?
(41 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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30.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 08:36 am

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 I cannot agree with you more on that. There are a lot of those in Turkey who cannot speak their mother tongue properly. They belong to the "Ya bence þimdi aslinda var ya..." category that uses less than 200 words to get by in daily life. Then, they use another 100 English words to mix in so that they sound cool.

 

 

 

Türkçe´nin seyri (Progress(?) of Turkish)

1960´lar
"Karþýma âniden çýkýnca ziyâdesiyle þaþakaldým.. Nasýl bir edâ takýnacaðýma hükûm veremedim, âdetâ vecde geldim. Buna mukâbil az bir müddet sonra kendime gelir gibi oldum, yüzünde beni fevkalâde rahatlatan bir tebessüm vardý.. Üstümü baþýmý toparladým, kendinden emin bir sesle ´akþam-ý þerifleriniz hayrolsun´ dedim.."

1970´ler
"Karþýma birdenbire çýkýnca çok þaþýrdým.. Ne yapacaðýma karar veremedim, heyecandan ayaklarým titredi. Ama çok geçmeden kendime gelir gibi oldum, yüzünde beni rahatlatan bir gülümseme vardý.. Üstüme çeki düzen verdim, kendimden emin bir sesle ´iyi akþamlar´ dedim.."

1980´ler...
"Karþýma âniden çýkýnca fevkalâde þaþýrdým.. Nitekim ne yapacaðýma hükûm veremedim, heyecandan ayaklarým titredi. Amma ve lâkin kýsa bir süre sonra kendime gelir gibi oldum, nitekim yüzünde beni ferahlatan bir tebessüm vardý.. Üstüme çeki düzen verdim, kendinden emin bir sesle ´hayýrlý akþamlar´ dedim.."

2000´ler...
"Karþýma birdenbire çýkýnca çok þaþýrdým.. Fenâ hâlde kal geldi yâni.. Ama bu iþ bizi bozar dedim. Baktým o da bana bakýyor, bu iþ tamamdýr dedim.. Manitayý tavlamak için doðruldum, artistik bir sesle ´selâm´ dedim.."

"Âbi onu karþýmda öyle görünce çüþ falan oldum yâni.. Oðlum bu iþ bizi kasar dedim, fenâ göçeriz dedim, enjoy durumlarý yâni.. Ama concon muyum ki ben, baktým ki o da bana kesik.. Sarýl oðlum dedim, bu manita senin.. ´Hav ar yu yavrum?´"
Ha gayret, az kaldý buna daJ

Yýl: 2026
"Ven ay vaz si hör, ben çok yâni öyle iþte birden.. Off, ay dont nov âbi yaa.. Ama o da bana öyle baktý, if so âþýk len bu manita.. ´Hay beybi..´"

31.       portokal
2516 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 04:38 pm

I cannot but agree - since I am bilingual... I learned both languages at the same time, Romanian and Hungarian. This means bilingual or , if three languages - trilingual and it reffers to people or regions using several (two or three) languages at the level of mothertongue, as mothertongue, I would add, subjectivly speaking of course; or in the case of regions as a result of the

Quote:

Add quoted text here

melting of several ethnics. Like kurds and turks, for eg.

Quoting cynicmystic

 I actually think that bilingualism is a bit misused.

 

You can be fluent in two languages in the sense that you can express yourself very well. In order to be classified as truly bilingual you should actually be able two speak both languages as well as your mother tongue together with a native accent.

 

I would say I am fluent in English, speak Turkish as my mother tongue, and can get by in Italian. However, I don´t think that I am bilingual despite the fact that I could write a business letter in English better than most English-speaking people I know or make use of a wider range of vocabulary in daily speech.

 

Bilinguilism is something that is really about people who acquire two or more langauges at the same time at a young age, and become "native" speakers, such as the children of a couple where the parents speak different langauges, and when te family may be living overseas. Swedish mother, English father, family living in Japan... The kid may end up trilingual in tis true sense.

 

 

 

 



Edited (2/15/2009) by portokal [spelling and grammar...]

32.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 05:14 pm

Si++

 

That was awesome. I loved it. It demonstrates the depth of the problem really well.

 

Do you have any other samples. It is hilarious.

33.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 05:56 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

Si++

 

That was awesome. I loved it. It demonstrates the depth of the problem really well.

 

Do you have any other samples. It is hilarious.

 

 It would be nice if the hilarious parts are shared with the people who can´t read Turkish (enough).



Edited (2/15/2009) by Trudy

34.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 06:03 pm

 

Quoting derya_

 

 As being a native speaker of Turkish and almost an advanced user of English, I can confidently say that learning Turkish is  more difficult than learning English.

 

Turkish is difficult? It´s a relative thing. There are scientific results that Turkish babies are the fastest language learners compared to languages like English, Italian, Arabic, Russian etc. So that means an easier to learn language.

 

Actually it´s "an easy language that´s hard to learn", in other words, there are many things that make it MUCH easier than many other languages people study: no sounds that are difficult to pronounce, a simple and very phonetic Latin-based alphabet, no gender differences for nouns (except for a masculine/feminine distinction in a few words borrowed from languages like Arabic) or even pronouns, essentially no irregular verbs, etc. (This extreme regularity of Turkish, once you become accustomed to it, can even spoil you a bit in terms of other languages, which then seem very "quirky" with all their genders, irregular forms, declined adjectives, etc.)

On the other hand, very little of the vocabulary of Turkish is cognate with words from Western languages, and the morphology and syntax, especially as one gets into the longer sentences that mark most formal writing, are an entire other dimension. You may think of Turkish sentence structure as a sort of mental gymnastics, which is fun to play with but takes most speakers of Indo-European languages quite a long time to become halfway familiar with, let alone to master. Even people who´ve studied the language for quite some time can get irretrievably lost in some long sentences. Simply put, "the way Turkish works", while quite regular and in fact logical, is totally alien to the way you think and speak in languages like English, and getting used to this difference is a big job that takes a lot of time and effort. As in so much in language-learning, strong and consistent motivation is essential, and you need to put in effort over time to achieve mastery.

35.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 06:20 pm

 

 

Ahmet Bey, sabah saat 7.00´de

Casio masa saatinin alarmýyla gözlerini açtý.

Puffy yorganýný kaldýrdý.

Hugo Boss pijamalarýný çýkarýp

Adidas terliklerini giydi.

WC ´ye uðradýktan sonra banyoya geçti.

Clear þampuan ve

Protex sabunuyla duþunu aldý.

Colgate ile diþlerini fýrçaladý.

Braun ile saçlarýný kuruttu.

Bill´s gömleðini ve

Pierre Cardin takýmýný giydi.

Lipton çayýný içti.

Sony televizyonda medya özetlerini ve

flash haberleri izledi.

Citizen kol saatine baktý. Aile fertlerine

"bye" deyip

Hyundai otomobiline bindi.

Blaupunkt radyosunu açarak,

rock müziði buldu. Aðzýna bir

Polo þeker attý. Þehrin göbeðindeki

Mega Center ´daki ofisine varýnca,

Toshiba bilgisayarýný çalýþtýrdý.

Microsoft Excel´e girdi.

Ofisboy ´dan

Nescafe ´sini istedi. Saat 10.00´a doðru açlýðýný yatýþtýrmak için

Grissini yedi. Öðlen

Wimpy´s Fast Food kafeteryaya gitti. Ayaküstü,

Coca Cola ve hamburgeri mideye indirdi.

Camel sigarasýný yakýp

Star gazetesini karýþtýrdý. Akþam üzeri iþ çýkýþý

Image Bar a uðrayýp

JB´ sini yudumladý, sonra köþedeki

Shopping Center ´a uðradý. Eþinin sipariþ ettiði

Ariel deterjan,

Ace çamaþýr suyu,

Palmolive þampuan,

Gala tuvalet kaðýdý,

Sprite gazoz ve

Johnson kolonyayý alarak kasaya yanaþtý.

Bonus kartýyla ödemeyi yaptý..Hafta sonu eþi Münevver´le

Galleria ´ya giden Ahmet Bey,

Showroom ´larý dolaþýp

Converse ayakkabý,

Lee Cooper blue jean satýn aldý.

Akþam evde bir gazetenin verdiði

TV Guide ´a göz atan Ahmet Bey, kanallar arasýnda

zapping yaparak,

First Class ,

Top Secret ,

Paparazzi gibi programlar izledi. Ayný anda

Outdoor dergisini karýþtýrdý.

Uykusu gelen Ahmet Bey, televizyonu kapatýp yatak odasýna geçerken, kendini mutlu hissetti.

Ne mutlu Türk´üm diyene !.. diye gerindi ve uyudu.

 

 



Edited (2/15/2009) by si++

36.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 06:23 pm

Turkish has fewer words than in English. Often we have to add other words to add shades of meaning, like az, çok, pek, biraz, fazla...

 

In English it can be easier to choose a shade of meaning.

 

Some words there is no equivalent of in Turkish e.g. frustrated.

 

I always say, your native language is the one you do mental arithmetic in!

 

e.g. if you see:

3 x 22 + 5 do you think "üç çarpý yirmi iki artý beþ" or "three times twenty-two plus five".

37.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 06:54 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 It would be nice if the hilarious parts are shared with the people who can´t read Turkish (enough).

 

It´s difficult to share those bits if you can´t read Turkish. But by analogy it is something like this.

 

MATH EVOLUTION

 

Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter girl
took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents from my
pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3
pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her
discomfort and tried to tell her to just g ive me two quarters, but she
hailed the manager for help. While he tried to explain the transaction to
her, she stood there and cried.

Why do I tell you this?  Because of the evolution in teaching math since
the 1950s:

1. Teaching Math In 1950s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of produc tion is
4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?

2. Teaching Math In 1960s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100 His cost of production is
4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is
$80.. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is
$80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990s

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of
$20. What do you think of this way of making a living?! Topic for class
participation after answering the question: How did the birds and
squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong
answers, and if you feel like crying, it´s ok. )

6. Teaching Math In 2007

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?

38.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 07:15 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

It´s difficult to share those bits if you can´t read Turkish. But by analogy it is something like this.

 

MATH EVOLUTION

 

Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter girl
took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents from my
pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3
pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her
discomfort and tried to tell her to just g ive me two quarters, but she
hailed the manager for help. While he tried to explain the transaction to
her, she stood there and cried.

Why do I tell you this?  Because of the evolution in teaching math since
the 1950s:

1. Teaching Math In 1950s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of produc tion is
4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?

2. Teaching Math In 1960s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100 His cost of production is
4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is
$80.. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is
$80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990s

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of
$20. What do you think of this way of making a living?! Topic for class
participation after answering the question: How did the birds and
squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong
answers, and if you feel like crying, it´s ok. )

6. Teaching Math In 2007

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?

 

 That´s indeed hilarious! Great, thanks Si++!

39.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 15 Feb 2009 Sun 08:33 pm

 Trudy, I wish I could translate but I cannot. It is just a really funny take on the laguage of today´s youth.

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 It would be nice if the hilarious parts are shared with the people who can´t read Turkish (enough).

 

 

40.       Uzun_Hava
449 posts
 16 Feb 2009 Mon 03:09 am

 

Quoting MarioninTurkey

I always say, your native language is the one you do mental arithmetic in!

 

e.g. if you see:

3 x 22 + 5 do you think "üç çarpý yirmi iki artý beþ" or "three times twenty-two plus five".

 

 One of my objections to Rosetta Stone was they they insisted on teaching the Turkish for arthmetic operations.  Why? the answers are the same!

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