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Minaret ban ´wins Swiss support´
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| 40. |
05 Dec 2009 Sat 09:20 pm |
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Something interesting for those who said Turkish people were being discriminated with visa´s... A friend of mine is getting a visa for Holland, a semi-permanent one, so we checked for prices...For everybody applying for this is more then 250 euro´s....for everybody except for the Turks! For the Turkish people it´s...hold your breath.... 41 euro! More then 200 euro cheaper.
Oh my GOD! Discrimination!!!
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| 41. |
07 Dec 2009 Mon 12:52 am |
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read all comments with attention and must say coming back to topic that the world is going crazy and irresponsible,I don´t personally see anything wrong with minarets and islam in Europe.I guess there will be many who will support my point of view.Europen media seem to exaggerate and stereotype ppl´s opinion but i have a sad feeling one have to educate to understand that.
In EU once there was one perfect union between countries that was broken up due to partition not religious,political or social reason.It was Polish-Lithuanian union that lasted for ages and in which ppl florished as it encouraged them in culturall.political and sociological term
what is unknown will always cause fear..and Europeans do not bother to get to know others...
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| 42. |
08 Dec 2009 Tue 03:40 pm |
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Man has a life span of say 70-80 years. I have completed more than half of it. I have made the acquaintance of thousands of people from various countries. This experience entitles me to say a few words about them, writers do that too, philosophers rave about them and poets elaborate on their pecularities. They all rely on their first hand experience to be able to that.
Somehow, there is a typical anti-muslim, anti-turkish sentiment producing all sorts of political consequences throughout Europe. They use this sentiment to win elections. Referandums turn out negative.
I am sorry that I disagree with you but Europe is against Turkey and Islam and this is evident in their visa policies, unconditional support of the other thesis whenever Turkey forms one of the parties. Isn´t this a tell-tale proof of a deep rooted prejudice? What did you think about Turkey before coming to see it? I know many people have been positively surprized on finding a country quite different from what they were told back home.
There is no denying some of these also apply to Turkey but the sophisticated, iron-clad anti-Turkish sentiment prevalent in Europe is beyond any comparison.
There are millions of potential tourists and businessmen who for all intents and purposes are eligible for entering a European country but they are daunted at the consulates where they are asked reports of bank balance sheets whereas this is private information from a legal point of view. Should there be the smalles suspicion about your intentions, you are denied of entry. You might obtain the visa and travel to a European country, there a policeman may send you back home. Everyone else is potentially good regardless of how they actually are but if you are a Turk you are potentially bad.
Uhmmmm....no. Firstly, it´s not "European culture".... xenophobic reactions are human nature... evolution and all that, protect your own, spread the genes, all that. So to attach it to a single culture is unfounded... Secondly, there is no "European culture", it is a area with a lot of different histories and cultures that are sometimes intertwined, but really different. And thirdly, saying that in other European countries the result would be the same is just crazy. You underestimate people, and make you own assumptions based on nothing. The fact that the xenophobes scream the loudests makes it seem like they are the only people in certain countries, but that doesn´t mean they actually ARE the only people.
I think you are giving a rather paranoid view of how Europe perceive Turks. As for entering the UK now, it is much more difficult for anyone not residing within the EU or EEA and immigration is now restricted to highly skilled and skilled workforce and showing their bank balance is something they have to do in order to prove they have the required funds stipulated in the criteria for entry. For short visits there are different rules and anyone outside the EEA have to prove they will return to their country of origin and not remain in the UK illegally. I agree it is humiliating to show your personal things but we are now living in a society where no information is personal.
Our island is becoming overcrowded and can only take so many people. That is why there is such a restriction on immigration now.
As for anti-muslim sentiment, can you not understand why there is this sentiment, when home grown muslims commit terrorist acts on home soil? Many want to introduce Shaira law, ban alcohol, make women wear the Burka etc - why? Should you not accept the law of the land you arrive in? I think so. There is not a problem with people wishing to practice their religion, but no one should ever try and impose their religion on to others.
I am afraid I have seen some examples lately in the UK where young muslims (and I will point out that they are not Turkish) have displayed themselves to be intolerant racist radicals and I wonder why those people have decided to settle in the UK. And then when this sort of behaviour is displayed why UK nationals get upset.
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| 43. |
08 Dec 2009 Tue 07:32 pm |
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I think you are giving a rather paranoid view of how Europe perceive Turks. As for entering the UK now, it is much more difficult for anyone not residing within the EU or EEA and immigration is now restricted to highly skilled and skilled workforce and showing their bank balance is something they have to do in order to prove they have the required funds stipulated in the criteria for entry. For short visits there are different rules and anyone outside the EEA have to prove they will return to their country of origin and not remain in the UK illegally. I agree it is humiliating to show your personal things but we are now living in a society where no information is personal.
Our island is becoming overcrowded and can only take so many people. That is why there is such a restriction on immigration now.
As for anti-muslim sentiment, can you not understand why there is this sentiment, when home grown muslims commit terrorist acts on home soil? Many want to introduce Shaira law, ban alcohol, make women wear the Burka etc - why? Should you not accept the law of the land you arrive in? I think so. There is not a problem with people wishing to practice their religion, but no one should ever try and impose their religion on to others.
I am afraid I have seen some examples lately in the UK where young muslims (and I will point out that they are not Turkish) have displayed themselves to be intolerant racist radicals and I wonder why those people have decided to settle in the UK. And then when this sort of behaviour is displayed why UK nationals get upset.
Totally agree!
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| 44. |
08 Dec 2009 Tue 07:49 pm |
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Libralady, basically you are saying these:
1- Europe is not very prejudiced against Turkey.
2- Only rich and highly skilled people are welcome in the UK.
3- Islam and Muslims are essentially bad therefore they deserve whatever they are subjected to.
And Trudy agrees with you. We can safely close this discussion and go ahead with our lives. The world will remain as it is. There will be forbidden islands, welfare zones open to only the previliged few. Those previliged few are welcome to running trusts, holdings, oil wells wherever they wish. In a nutshell, everything will go on the way it has always been. Just like some philosopher famously said, "Under the sun, everything is the same."
We all like to imagine there were a bit more decency in the world.
Imagine there´s no Heaven
It´s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there´s no countries
It isn´t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I´m a dreamer
But I´m not the only one
I hope someday you´ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I´m a dreamer
But I´m not the only one
I hope someday you´ll join us
And the world will live as one
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| 45. |
08 Dec 2009 Tue 08:09 pm |
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Libralady, basically you are saying these:
1- Europe is not very prejudiced against Turkey.
2- Only rich and highly skilled people are welcome in the UK.
3- Islam and Muslims are essentially bad therefore they deserve whatever they are subjected to.
And Trudy agrees with you. We can safely close this discussion and go ahead with our lives. The world will remain as it is. There will be forbidden islands, welfare zones open to only the previliged few. Those previliged few are welcome to running trusts, holdings, oil wells wherever they wish. In a nutshell, everything will go on the way it has always been. Just like some philosopher famously said, "Under the sun, everything is the same."
Vineyards, I don´t think that´s what LL is saying. In some ways Europe IS prejudiced, no-one will deny, it´s only not always and every time as bad as some say / think, there are a lot of grey nuances between black and white. I don´t think immigrants should be rich to come to Europe but there is a difference between being rich and at arrival asking for social welfare - that´s what happens/happened a lot here (can´t talk about the UK). Skills? Yes, very much needed and welcome. But in no way it means only people with higher education as university, just people able to learn money for their living in a sufficient way. For your last remark: I sincerely hope you don´t really think that´s the idea around here. It isn´t. The idea is - like LL said - people are welcome to have their own religion with own houses of prayer though it´s not very appreciated when people are forcing their believes on to other people. I think every sane person will understand that only a minority of immigrants have ideas that conflict with the already existing culture of a country.
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| 46. |
08 Dec 2009 Tue 11:49 pm |
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maybe europe has reached the time where its better for european women to wear burkas?
as for minarets i would absolutely hate to hear that unpleasant noise from its top.
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| 47. |
09 Dec 2009 Wed 12:25 am |
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as for minarets i would absolutely hate to hear that unpleasant noise from its top.
A matter of taste
personally I have nothing against
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| 48. |
09 Dec 2009 Wed 03:24 am |
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A matter of taste
personally I have nothing against
yep, me neither, I think that the variety is great.
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| 49. |
09 Dec 2009 Wed 05:47 am |
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Now??? Harumph!!! I when I encountered UK Customs over 20 years ago with a ticket out in two weeks, plenty of funds, paid for hotel accomodation and still it was a damned hassle. They went through every item in my baggage. They all but took things apart. I had to open everything up, went through every item of my underwear. It was damned insulting. It´s fortunate I travel light, just a few changes of garments, basic toiletries and some vitamines. I guess it was the way they did it that was so insulting. No problem, I can take my money and talent someplace else.
I have been in a number of other European countries, Britain was by far the worse as far as the demeanour of customs.
I think you are giving a rather paranoid view of how Europe perceive Turks. As for entering the UK now, it is much more difficult for anyone not residing within the EU or EEA and immigration is now restricted to highly skilled and skilled workforce and showing their bank balance is something they have to do in order to prove they have the required funds stipulated in the criteria for entry. For short visits there are different rules and anyone outside the EEA have to prove they will return to their country of origin and not remain in the UK illegally. I agree it is humiliating to show your personal things but we are now living in a society where no information is personal.
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| 50. |
09 Dec 2009 Wed 03:59 pm |
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Now??? Harumph!!! I when I encountered UK Customs over 20 years ago with a ticket out in two weeks, plenty of funds, paid for hotel accomodation and still it was a damned hassle. They went through every item in my baggage. They all but took things apart. I had to open everything up, went through every item of my underwear. It was damned insulting. It´s fortunate I travel light, just a few changes of garments, basic toiletries and some vitamines. I guess it was the way they did it that was so insulting. No problem, I can take my money and talent someplace else.
I have been in a number of other European countries, Britain was by far the worse as far as the demeanour of customs.
You must be a suspicious looking person, Alameda 
I went to Britain for a ten-day trip back in 1994 or 1993 and all I heard after presenting my Polish passport and explaining I was there to sightsee castles, was "Enjoy your stay" 
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