most of Turkish women have suffer so much but i believe that they r mostly more thxfull to God and happier with simple reasons then the women who have more comfortable life....

Canli,

It is true that there is a misconception at the west on how women are treated in the Muslim world, however, I have traveled myself and had opportunities to see the circumstances under which women live under Islam. After all, I live in a country where significant part of the population is Muslim. Agree, things are not that bad either, in some countries, nevertheless it does not apply to most of the women.

You say Islam and the Koran are not discriminative towards the women, but than please explain how come in most of the Muslim world women are covered and live miserable lives deprived of many freedoms and rights enjoyed by women in the west. Or by saying that traditions instead of Islamic rules prevail in these countries aren’t you saying there is not real Islam in these countries and people are mislead? Please don’t think that I have anything against Islam, Christianity is as depriving and discriminatory to women, but there is one difference and that is that we live in post-Christian world where the faith and the state are far apart.
Islam and Christianity both create an atmosphere of chauvinism by telling men that they are superior to women. Same old story, from Latin America to Afghanistan.

I have been to Egypt and have not got the impression that women there are exactly free from wearing hijab. I think this freedom is only available to few women from the upper class and with affluent backgrounds that anyway do not mingle with normal folks and live in their protected islands of so called freedom. Women in Egypt were invisible and veiled. And pardon me I cannot but laugh to your saying that women have right to choose to wear the veil. I agree that women have the right to wear the veil as they have the right to wear biking if it is their choice, but how many women do you know that have rejected the veil and not been prosecuted by their families, neighbors, societies.
By simply using the Internet and speaking English you demonstrate not to belong to the majority of the women in Egypt who are poor, uneducated and with not real perspectives for future outside the home and the family.

No one is restricting your right to wear the scarf, but being raised surrounded with such a limiting doctrine, what your chances of choosing the other way would have been.

G.

and i think happiness very relative term,and it depends you looking for happiness on what?

happiness is aim,but there r many ways to go this target and i think we all have to respect others way ,unless its not a harmless for others(is it not a fact some people looking for happiness at the bottom drink glasses while another one looking for it in temples?

and i agreed that women more lucky about freedoms on west,but is it enough to be happy all?

gorcvet,

Why do you still insist that we've raised surrounded with a limiting doctrine ?

Why don't you simply accept that we actually had the choice and we've made it ?

İslam said to wear Hijab at almost the age 15 yrs old ''for reasons,not place here to discuss it'',most women here who wear Hijab started to wear it after 20th or 30th,or later,including me,i did at 20th, didn't that means we had the choice not to wear it for a long time,and when they wanted to wear it they did ?

Even we know we should wear it,but we choose not to ?' and i'm not much proud of that tho'

Part of my family live in the West,i don't see they are enjoying more freedom than i am enjoying it here already
So as you see i can judge too
At least i can choose to wear whatever i want,and walk in the street without being rejected for what i wear,if wearing Hijab or whatever
İ can attend to schools,Universities,any place,without a privious judgment upon me for what i wear,or interfer with my personal choice,and order me arround about what i wear!

Excuse me,but that i call it freedom to do whatever you want without effecting other people

And yes,i agree lots of Muslim women in Egypt wear viel,but that was their choice,not forced upon them, they just want to obey ALLAH,and you cann't really argue with them about that

You said you've been to Egypt,you said,you have not got the impression that women there are exactly free from wearing hijab,have you really stopped vieled women at the streets and asked them if they were forced to wear Hijab or not ?

The freedom,is available for women at all classes,upper class or lower one,
Egyptian women are a very strong women among most women,not only by choice,but forced upon us to become strong too
That is cause of the long history of wars which forced on our country,so men were not there to take the responsibility at those times,so women had to take it over

Do you think with such women,anyone could force a simple thing like covering a head,her own head upon her ? UNLESS,UNLESS,she really want to wear it too ?

As i said at my early post,there are some which suffer from bad treatments of men ,but that is not only in Egypt,or Muslim world too, that is all over the world

There are some kind of men,weak men i must add,trying to control,and take over women,mentally,and sometimes physically too
The term Wives abuse,is well known at the Western world too,and you can read statistics about that

You are asking me how many women do i know that have rejected the veil and not been prosecuted by their families, neighbors, societies?

How about my cousins ? How about my late aunt,ALLAH rest her soul,
And i just want to hint,late aunt,means she was really old woman,and still were not wearing Hijab ,or viel,
İt was her choice and she made it too
How about lots of friends,neighbors arround me ?
How about normal people walking in the streets ?

how about MY MOTHER aunts,who wear the scarf at the age of 60 ???

We all have the freedom,and definitely without a question,we have the freedom to wear a scarf or not,after all it is our own head which we cover it or not

İ agree with you,Women in Egypt WERE invisible and veiled ,
But that was in the 30th of the late century,and i don't think you were here in this period of time
At this time really women were invisible and veiled,but then came the 60th,and at this time you wouldn't find a woman here in Egypt wearing Hijab except maybe in the country,on the contrary,they were wearing mini skirts,micro skirts and bikinis...ect
And, yesss,i know lots of them and saw their pictures too
İ wasnn't there at 60th to see with my own eyes,,lol

And now lots of women wear viel,along with others wearing bikinis, as you can see,it was,and still their choice and they've took it through the years

Another thing,i didn't say there is not real Islam in these countries and people are mislead,

İ cann't make that kind of judgment

But,if i say covering the face,and wearing black clothes not written in Quran ,that's i am sure of

And dare anyone to say otherwise

And about being mislead, well i don't think really for anyone who know how to read there could be such an action,misleading i mean

Because knowledge are in the books

İ'm not even saying TV,satellite or what ever,so you would say upper class,but simply the books

And as for İslam, there is Quran,and who want to know his,or her duties,her rights,or his rights,simply can read Quran

But what is happening in other countries,i call it Traditions,Political circumstances,social circumstances,whatever,but not İslam

That is the main point here,to separate between what is happening in some countries,and between how İslam rules

This part of your post ' but than please explain how come in most of the Muslim world women are covered and live miserable lives deprived of many freedoms and rights enjoyed by women in the west '

İ agree with some,and disagree with some,
İt is not happening of most of Muslim world,but again there are some places, where women live miserable lives deprived of many freedoms and rights enjoyed by women in the west
But i guess the reason for that,not religious reasons,but more political reasons

And that is another story !

You are talking about women enjoying freedom in the west,i agree
But,how about Muslims women,how much freedom do they enjoy in the west ?

Before talking about freedom,give it first then talk about it !

Thx