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Political correctness or racism: doubts...
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| 10. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 02:31 pm |
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True again aenigma. My country is also not so innocent when it comes to colonizing. But my point is, if I just do accept other cultural behavings and point of views but do not accept 'they' (?) want to change things back in time, am I a racist then? Let me explain: some of my students do want to get rid of laws according gay marriage, abortion and living unmarried together because they are against it. They think it is normal calling names at gays, normal to abuse women who dress - in their opinion - not decent. I think they are absolutely entitled to their point of view but not to the behaviour going with it as they say. My 'problem' is not different religion or ideas, my problem is the action some people take to convince others of their ideas.
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| 11. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 03:21 pm |
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Quoting Trudy: Let me explain: some of my students do want to get rid of laws according gay marriage, abortion and living unmarried together because they are against it. They think it is normal calling names at gays, normal to abuse women who dress - in their opinion - not decent. |
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| 12. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 03:23 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Well, first of all, be careful not to call people from the UK "English" - Joey will not thank you for forgetting the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish 
I have mixed feelings about your comments. I can understand that you are saying, but my feelings are that we MUST lose this nationalistic approach. The world is changing, especially Europe, and there are no borders within the EU now. People are free to come and go as they please.
With regard to Christmas, I would agree with you if we were a devoutly Christian country. However, most people have no interest in the church or religion until a "nice" festival like Christmas comes along. It is hypocritical of us to be offended.
If you believe that people who move to the UK should embrace our culture and religion, then perhaps you should look at the bad record of the English, in particular, and their "colonies". We had no respect for other's culture, we created "little England's" all over the world - and still continue to do so as people move to the sunny resorts to live permanently.
We are getting a taste of our own medicine, and sometimes medicine tastes bitter eh?
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I apologise when i was writing my post i was thinking how i word this and it appears i got it wrong i shouldnt have used the word Englishman/woman .
and as you rightly say no one really cares about religon until christmas and i am one who doesnt practice my faith but at the same time i do very little over christmas, i dont buy presents and i dont put up a tree as i live alone and usually work and so its just another working day and i have very very little family with no children in it and so to me personally christmas doesnt really matter to me personally i was just trying to say just how we must try and accomodate whilst we are loosing our traditions whether christmas madness or hype ,and as i say i am absolutely for culture i love it and never ever would i expect people coming to settle in the uk to change their religion to pratice ours that would just go against everything i said.
i am sorry if i have offended anyone i did say in my post it is sometimes hard to put into context something that is written and not said verbally.
i'll shut up now lol as im digging an ever bigger hole for myself
Kind regards
jackie
xx
  
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| 13. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 03:41 pm |
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Quoting Capoeira: Is it only immigrants that share these views? I think there is a gross over generalization here. How many racially or sexually orientated hate crimes happen in your country? Are all the perpetrators foreigners? Or is it possible that many are your fellow countrymen? How many women in your country are raped by your fellow countrymen each day? How often is their defense; the woman was dressed like a prostitute? How many times have foreigners in your country been subjected to name calling or jeering based on their dress or the color of their skin? Maybe I am passionate about this, because I am first generation of immigrant parents. But, I find it interesting that we all closely scrutinize immigrants and blame them for our country's ills. When in fact, our countries had problems, grave problems, before they even arrived and would continue to do so if we suddenly were able to kick them out. |
Capoeira, sorry if I offended you. No, you are absolutely right, there are too many Dutch here thinking those things, finding normal what you described. I always relativize comments of people who are talking about 'we' and 'them' with just the arguements you mentioned: look at yourself. To some people I am therefor naiev and not faithful to my country.... It is definitely not my intention to blame foreigners, no way. It is just that I am most of time very happy with the multicultiral society we have here, I like it. But after years of 'fighting' for equal rights with the conservative or too nationalistic groups around here, I do not want to have that same fight again. The laws of equality are there, I want to keep them, not considering them over again and 'soften' them.
But anyway thanks, your comments made me think about what to vote. I know now - the same left-wing party I always did. 
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| 14. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 04:32 pm |
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Quoting jackieeuk: i am sorry if i have offended anyone i did say in my post it is sometimes hard to put into context something that is written and not said verbally.
i'll shut up now lol as im digging an ever bigger hole for myself |
Not at all, well you certainly never offended me  ! We were both just expressing different points of views eh?
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| 15. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 04:34 pm |
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Quoting Capoeira: Is it only immigrants that share these views? I think there is a gross over generalization here. How many racially or sexually orientated hate crimes happen in your country? Are all the perpetrators foreigners? Or is it possible that many are your fellow countrymen? How many women in your country are raped by your fellow countrymen each day? How often is their defense; the woman was dressed like a prostitute? How many times have foreigners in your country been subjected to name calling or jeering based on their dress or the color of their skin? Maybe I am passionate about this, because I am first generation of immigrant parents. But, I find it interesting that we all closely scrutinize immigrants and blame them for our country's ills. When in fact, our countries had problems, grave problems, before they even arrived and would continue to do so if we suddenly were able to kick them out. |
Well said! +1
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| 16. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 05:54 pm |
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No offense taken! Just a great exchange of ideas among dear friends...
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| 17. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 06:19 pm |
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Quoting Capoeira: No offense taken! Just a great exchange of ideas among dear friends... |
I agree, love you
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| 19. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 07:07 pm |
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Maybe by writing this i will be changing the topic slightly
within my job role i do come into contact with homophobic and racist incidents and over the past 2 yrs instead of maybe 3-4 reports a year they are a weekly occurance now and this increase is racism reports !! some of these reports are tit for tat where neighbours cannot live next door to each other peacrfully whilst others is sheer and pure unprovoked attacks,mostly i am pleased to say are verbal and not phyical however,i havent been subject of any kind of racisim UNTIL i started going out with a Turkish national.
Then the abuse started.
My close friend who actually introduced us in the first place turned the tables and started saying he's no good and she only introduced us for a bit of fun and didnt think it would go anywhere and that i should get rid of him, when i went out, her husband started having a go and this is where i really got a taste, friends of his who i didnt actually know and were strangers to me after a few beers would come and tap me on the shoulder and start, saying they hear i am going out with a Turkish ba****d, what the hell am i doing going out with a foreign ****(well i wont even partly spell the next word that followed) what am i after a free f'ing kebab? the abuse was endless and in the end i stopped going out, i became very depressed, if he was a white or English guy i would have had a pat on the back and would have been told well done girl im pleased for you but no, endless abuse,
he's ugly, he's usless, he cant speak English properly (so??) what could ever offer you (love,kindness,loyalty,respect?), even his name was scoffed at,he's a f'ing muslim,it went on and on and yet my friend who introduced us went out with his friend for 2yrs but her approach to her boyfriend was totally different to my approach and so her treatment from her's was so different from mine , hers was jealous and so she would deliberately play on that and then she got a reaction and that then made her do it even more ,hers hated her going out beause he knows what she's like where as mine begs me to go out (he doesnt know what abuse ive had) he really doesnt want me to loose my contact with my friends which is unusual for a Turkish man, he is so happy when i say im going going with a friend but my friend can only see what Turks are like from her own experience and mostly her fault ! and thinks if i settle down with Ahmet im going to get the same treatment, she has no idea just how different we are!
I am a peaceful person and i so wanted to stick up for him but i know in the situations i was in, a crowded pub, men & women fired up with alcohol would have probably inflamed the situation so i just turned my back but when you are actually out with some of the people who are doing this you havent really got anywhere to go but home and so i stopped going out i just wanted a few drinks with a few friends not abuse like this. People ive discussed this with say why do you go around with them , well i dont , its just one friend i go around with and its her friends and her husbands friends who we meet up with along the way that do it and my friend still doesnt like the idea but says its my decsion and she will support me even if she doesnt agree with it .
I still dont go out much , my friend still says he's not rightfor me ,her husband says no more as he says i know his views
but now i can actually stand up and say ive been faced with racism personnaly and although it wasnt frightening as my life wasnt being threatened it was still a horrible situation to hear people saying these things about my partner and future husband , again if he had been white and they didnt like him things would have been said behind my back and not to my face and i know it would, but ,as he wasnt English or white it made them think they had the absolute right to verbally abuse him when the majority of these people had not even ever seen him let alone have met him.
Phew sorry i harped on a bit
Kind Regards
Jackie
xx
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| 20. |
11 Nov 2006 Sat 07:30 pm |
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I found this very very uncomfortable to read and I know it will indirectly offend many people here. I don't know what part of England you live in, but this is outrageous!
However, I can agree with you that racism has increased, and we can look directly to the media for this (particularly the Daily Mail and Daily Express - the most racist, disgusting, headline scare-mongering papers of all). They are using scare tactics to create racism. Check the headlines of any news report in the past few months and you can guarantee that at least half of them will be about problems with the muslim communities.
I dont know what else to say - this is very worrying...
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