1.The quotation made by kadersokak was written in a book whose author is a greek nationalist, therefore he is not objective in his judgements.
2. No one likes fighting between communities, but unfortunately it happens. When we analyze a historical event, we also try to understand why it has happened and what reasons caused that event. So, belowed passages explains the reasons behind that event. If you go to the belowed WEB PAGE addres from where I quoted the following passages, you will see how Greeks had tortured and tyrannized Turkish people, before 1955 Istanbul incidents. Let's be objective, please.

http://www.charm.net/~trnc/h9.html#3

3. And finally, a question to Kadersokak: What was your aim, kadersokak, when you decide to send that message to the site members? To improve the relations between the Grek and Turkish people? Or to develop the dialogs between this site memebers who are Turkish and foreigners from different countries? I mean what will be the use of that message you sent? You should also read the folloving informations, I think.

THE GREEK ONSLAUGHT

The most dramatic and tragic Greek offensive was launched on the Christmas eve on the Turkish positions in Kumsal area of Nicosia and particularly on the mixed suburb of Kaimakli (Omorphita).

The three children of a Turkish Major who was serving as a doctor in the Turkish mainland contingent and his wife were killed in the bath tub where they hide themselves. The Greek armed gangs riddled them with machine-gun bullets.



At midday Sampson, Who was the leader of a notorious EOKA assassination group during 1950's, with his private militia made an all-out attack against the Turks of Küçük Kaimakli (Omorphita). They attacked with much superior weapons, including light anti-aircraft machine-guns. The Turkish Cypriots' resistance was exhausted and resulted in heavy losses. 700 Turkish hostages, mostly women and children were taken away by Sampson's gang and imprisoned in a Greek school.

"The Greek irregulars ran wild, killing scores of Turks, including women and children, smashing and looting Turkish houses and taking hundreds of hostages" .

Here are a few selected pieces from the international press reporters who witnessed the Greek onslaught during the bloody Christmas days of 1963:

"The 70 year old Turkish Imam of Omorphita was also killed together with his crippled son who were shot on sight".

The following is how S. Gibbons described the Greek attacks on two Turkish villages of Mathiati and Kochatis:

As the terrified Turks shuffled along, cowering from the blows from rifle butts, the mob rushed into the houses, dragged the blazing logs from the fireplaces and threw them at curtains and on beds. The wooden roof beams, dried out over many years, smoked then crackled into flames.

Along the street the Turks were driven, dragging their wounded; women, many in their night dress and bare feet.

Before some of the buildings had fully caught fire, groups of them dashed inside, smashing furniture and dishware, grabbing valuables and stuffing them them into their pockets.

Terrified noises from behind the houses drew the attention of the attackers to the Turkish livestock.

Breaking into the barns, they machine-gunned milk cows, goats and sheep. Hens were thrown into the air and blasted by bullets as they squawked and fluttered, their pathetic bodies exploding in feathered puffs. The mob roared in blood-crazed delirium.

The Turks were driven out of the village, along the freezing open road. Near the next village, Kochatis, an all Turkish area the tormented refugees were left.

While the Turks of Kochatis rushed out to help their neighbours, the mob... returned to Mathiati to continue their orgy of shooting, burning and pillaging".

H. Scott Gibbons, Peace without Honour, p.10




INTERNATIONAL

here we started again...

First of all, we have to accept that both events were written to our communities pages with black inks... both events are sad...

if you comment after such post in your way... i may ask a few questions to you...

-being nationalist doesnt make a people subjective on a topic... everyone has that somehow as much as you, i and others have.

-being objective cant be named as they killed us so we can kill them... no i cant accept that...

-i am sorry but does what its written on the link you gave and what you post really gives you a right to murder not only greeks any civillian from other nations?

if so can this be any different from "blood fued"?
again if so? these people can go till Malazgirt War to 1071 if you start to search why its started... or maybe more past...

their killing you, order murdering you doesnt mean that you can kill them... whatever it happens you cant have any right to do such things... also this doesnt decrease and makes you release from what you have done...
if they kill your people as a government... you should ask from your people lives those areas to move your own country... so the government was working well? (actually we cant ever say that it was and is working well after Ataturk)

- not only in this book or sentences Orhan Pamuk hisself also says the same statements... so its useless to search any aim under this topic...

if we continue like that this will be no different that a competition to be preeminent in something trifling.
Better to look forward instead of looking the blacks to histories pages...

Dear metehan2001,

You say that “If you go to the below WEB PAGE address, you will see how Greeks had tortured and tyrannized Turkish people, before 1955 Istanbul incidents” but the events described there, are referring to the year 1963 and after (however, for what its worth, know that I feel ashamed as a Greek to read this info).

You say that this book is written by a Greek nationalist and thus it can’t be objective. Is this information also partial? Wikipedia

Finally, you suggest that we should all be objective. I know I am. Can you be?

I’ve been trying to find an explanation (not today but for quite sometime now) for the events of September 1955, something that would sustain this tragedy, but I have come up with nothing.

There was only a bomb explosion in Ataturk’s house in Selanik, which bomb – as it was proved later – was put there by a Turk, who was following orders from the Turkish government. I’m not blaming the people who committed these acts of violence. They didn’t know. Your authorities are the ones to blame.

I have found reasonable excuses for every other dark incident in the history of Greece and Turkey. And in fact, I always tend to put the blame on us, Greeks. We took what we deserved in 1922, maybe the expulsion of the Greek minority in 1964 was justified (!?) and maybe we forced our luck too later in Cyprus and so on (although all these subjects are under discussion). But this particular event was absolutely unjustified and unfair.

Admitting the mistakes that our own countries have made, doesn’t make us traitors. It only means that we are healthy minded persons, who want to understand the motives and the reasons, follow the events, count the losses and finally be able to come to an objective conclusion, which will help us avoid the same mistakes in the future. Burying the hatred without analyzing it, can only work temporarily. One day though, it will dig its way out again and the same mistakes will be repeated.

In the course of the history states have always tended to find real or virtual enemies to keep their armies energetic and alert all the time, and also to give their nations a cause to be united. States also do this to distract their nations' attentions when they have some internal troubles.

The virtual enemy for the west used to be communism. On the other hand it was capitalism for the communist states.
Following the collapse of ex-USSR the US have found for herself some other virtual enemies; terrorism, nuclear threats. Lets remember Clinton ordered the army to blast Iraq when he had the infamous trouble with Monica.

Both Turkey and Greece have made each other their own virtual enemies. I don't think the vast majorities in both nations don't have hostile feelings against each other.
Both nations had some bad experiences in the past. What happened on the 6th and 7th September in İstanbul was very sad. Except some marginal minds nobody is happy with the incidents. What happened in Cyprus before 1974 was also very sad. And I don't think the large number of people in Greece apart from some minority is happy with that.

We aren't politicians we can be friends and love each other. We don't have to admit what the politicians try to impose on us.

I was not aware of most of the points you made above. I know that the Turkish minority in Greece is not living a dream life, but it seems that they are suffering more than I thought. You just gave me a new subject to read and learn about. (And by the way, I have admitted many times, that I'm not always proud of my country's policies)

I do have a couple of Turkish friends who live in Komotini (Gümülcine) with their families and they are very successful business people, with lots of money and a big property in their possession. But they have told me how they suffered in the previous years, when things were tough for them, their university degrees were not recognized by the Greek government and they couldn’t find a job or start something of their own.

However, when I mentioned the Turkish minority in a previous post and assumed that they must be ok living in my country, I meant that at least their lives were not and are not in danger, which was not the case with the Greek minority in Turkey.

Anyway, that's what this is all about. To hear, search and learn. And again, I ll say that I’m happy that this discussion took place here, cause both me and you learnt something new today.

So I’ll stick to your first paragraph and I’ll sign my name under it, cause I agree with it 100%, as I also agree with Qdemir's post.

Sophie,
Thanks for your sincerety.