Hello,
I was talking to my fiancee and one of her best friends boy is going to have a circumcision and she is invited to the party afterwards I do not know alot about this ceremony but understand why it is done. She told me that Eddis who is nine will have a nice big comfortable bed afterwards and he will also have a party where family and friends bring gifts. When my fiancee's nephew had this performed he wore a white suit I found it a very proud moment for the family in this tradition and Nes showed me his picture.

Never really understood this as a celebration time. Circumsitions are typically done at the time of birth in other cultures. Why do they think this is something to celebrate? Sounds very painful.

aren't some pains joyfull?

well,was a joke only,and yes circumcision traditions even shows some differences depend of type of Turkish families.and its still very warm and alive for the traditional families,while the its just a health metter for a small part of Turkish people..(and its easier with anestehsia )

Turkish males more more important for their families (especially traditional families) 4 times in their life 1-when they born 2-when they circumsation 3-when they going to army 4-when they getting married

Yes your right,those four things are big mile stones in a turkish males life.

Living in England we have not such good traditions and we rarely have this type of culture that brings everybody together at one time and celebrate these occassions. I for one would like to take part in as much of these occasions as possible and really feel part of my new family and new friends I have made. I am going to make a confession here I recently had a circumcision myself why there was no particulary need to have this done but I do now respect my new fiancee and my new life and wanted to feel part of this new life, the only thing is I did not have a party to celebrate

no worries brother,i hope you can do that for ur son's on the future

in 1582 there had been a celebration which took 52 days for the ruler of the Ottoman Empire's(Mehmet the 3rd) circumcision.

I cried at my sons more than he did and my husband had to change all nappies and bathe him for the next good little while too. I hope the next child I have will be a girl

Have a look at this article and stop crying. What is left is good enough for all practical purposes

WHO : World Health Organisation

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2005/pr32/en/

Thanks for the article AlphaF.

Here's more about the topic from the UNAIDS website:

26 February 2007

With male circumcision and its links to HIV acquisition hitting the headlines and sparking debates around the world, in the first of a special three-part series on the issue, www.unaids.org takes a closer look at the historical, traditional and increasingly social reasons behind the practice of male circumcision across the world.


read further

it was a rainy day. I thought they take me to lunapark. when I understood everything, IT WAS TOO LATE...

i shouted that i'm not a boy,i'm a girl,but didn't work

Speaking from personal experience i am sure my fiance would be thrilled to know that i agree men who have been circumcised are better in bed

And dont forget that natural lubrication is gone.
How many circumsised men get a little bit sore!!

I still remember the golds I recieved

make love&sex very different things,so both has different values

Interesting topic indeed.

When a Chinese guy asked an Uyghur man why the Moslem men do this, the man replied:

Can you hit better with your fist tucked in your sleeve or with a bare fist?

Jokes aside, it is scientifically proved to be beneficial for the males to have this little cut.

We have celebration at the age of seven (when this cut is done), which is even a bigger event than a wedding.

one good way to decide which one is more popular and preferred among ladies is to compare the sales statistics of the two different types (artificial) sold in certain special shops.

I thought this discussion related to something else, not culture.
I must be in the wrong place !

to understand realities or backrounds of a different culture as hard as to learning thier language to,and i believe that thats really not easy without living that.somethings seems to us very odd while it has a very deep meaning for other one,and who can say social life's rules clear as the mathematic or physic rules,so 2+ 2 always not 4 and thats not easy why the some of people try to mke it 4 for keep to charm of diversities....and i think to say ''yes ,thats interesting and i'm trying to understand'' always better then to say ''how scattering'' ...

Male circumcision. Is it that important to think about it ?
It is a tradition in our culture. I have never met a male who was regretting that he had circumcision. I knew many kids who were trying to escape from it. But when it is done, that feeling of scaring replaced with proud. It doesn't hurt much, since they are not cutting the genital organ but some part of the skin around it. So in my opinion it doesn't affect male's sex life. It may give some advantages or lessen some abilities in bed, that is not my point.
It is a tradition as I said, based on religion. More than %90(just a guess though) of the Muslim population believes that it is a good thing to do. Of course you have right to have or not to have it, well mostly depending on your family. I haven't heard of a family who hadn't had their sons circumcised.
Similar as the situation in Christian culture, if there is only one kid circumcised in the school, it may be hard for him to tolerate jokes or bad words that he heard from his friends in the shower room. The opposite of this is valid in our culture. The uncircumcised kid can hear many bad things from his friends thus making him hate his family etc. I am talking about mental effects of circumcision in the society, since in my opinion there is not an important physical effect.
In Egypt there is female circumcision which is cutting of clitoris. That is affecting a woman's life. This is a very important physical effect on the woman's life. I can not figure out what the mental effect can be.
I do not know if it is legal or illegal and I know many people are against it, but they can not stop it. I do not know where/how this tradition is rooted in the society, but people believe in it, therefore they do it.
There are many bad traditions to fight before circumcision, in our culture. There are many people fighting against those bad traditions, but it is very questionable if they have succeeded. Traditions thus culture is the life of the society. Base of the society. If you don't have a culture it is hard for you to become a society, in my opinion.
Your traditions and culture may be so different than ours.
You have your right to talk about our traditions. But I prefer you don't criticize them before knowing what it means to that society.
I do that here in Korea. The life is full of traditions, more than Turkey and people apply those traditions to foreigners too. They expect them to act as their traditions say, denying the traditions cause you loss of respect and sometimes money etc. As a foreigner in this society, well I am lucky that I am only a student here, I am having hard times to adapt those traditions. I think that most of the traditions here are silly things. I mean they don't mean anything to me. I talk about and criticize them in my talks with my close friends here. Some agree with me and some not. They also know that those old traditions doesn't mean anything in today's life. But nobody can change them, because traditions make their society. Changing a tradition means changing a society completely which is not as simple as talking about them.

Hello,
I really wrote about this subject heading to get an insight into this part of Muslim culture I wanted to read about the whole ceremony and how the days events are undertaken, I have since spoke to Nesrin about this and yesterday they through a party for the boy in question. He had the operation a few days ago and now is recovering in a larger more comfortable bed which was arranged by his parents. Nes was at the party where family and friends brought gifts for the young boy, she said she wished I was there to witness this traditional ceremony I would have liked to have been.

Please forgive my blunt way of putting things, I did not intend to be mean. My only point is that we don't have to be natives of somebody else's tribe to have the right to criticize it (it's different then being violent or hostile! it certainly requires some knowledge and empathy and it doesn't mean that we'll always be right, the point is that it must be based on empathy and reason). Even if traditions mean deep things to people from those cultures and change is always difficult, that doesn't mean that change isn't necessary and breaking apart from CERTAIN traditions wouldn't make the culture more humane. I will say again that we should connect with each other through our humanity instead of worshiping our tribes or loyalty to our tribal subgroups. AlphaF - I was responding to vineyard's comment, sorry for getting off topic.

Thanks SunFlowerSeed, what I wrote earlier is obviously not a full exploration of this topic. You wrote very nicely about the need to respect each other as individuals. What I sort of implied in my previous comment was that humanity should go BEFORE traditions/cultures/religions/tribal loyalty - if they are in conflict with each other. This is a different issue then what you are describing, although many people confuse these two. So for example, if according to a tradition it's ok to rape a woman when she doesn't want to have sex with her husband, then somebody should criticize this cultural/religious belief and stand up for human rights of these women. If according to a religious belief, an infidel should be killed or outcasted, then obviously this religious dogma has to be criticized. If you look at the kind of porn many men watch these days, it's so hideous how they look at and treat women.
These examples look very obvious, but the amount of human rights violations all over the globe says that it's not so obvious to everybody.

I agree with you once again that humanity must go before other things.
But you are talking about IDEALs my dear. Humanity was dead with 'Habil and Kabil'(Sorry, don't know the English names, but should be similar in the Bible).
People has 'VALUE's and, sadly those values are in front of everything. Because of those values we(humans) hurt, killed, raped etc and we thought that we were doing the right thing.

The humanity described in books, laws are all based on values of humans. I mean your humanity is based on your values, your knowledge. My humanity is based on my values and knowledge. So there is nothing ideal-for-all in this REAL world. But, of course there are common points that everybody should agree. I am against every bad things that you have described some of them in your post and more that you haven't mentioned.

In Eastern philosophy there is Ying-Yang, bad in good, good in bad. It is another humanity idea. Expect something good from a bad event, and expect something bad from a good event. But keep your respect to everything. Here you can change good-bad with other antonyms.

I don't think that the human beings will reach the perfection in the next hundreds of thousands years.

Keep fighting till the sun dies, may we succeed.

No big deal about humanity.

Humanity is the second form of life, possibly in the whole universe, which works towards destruction of the very source of its own existence : The mother earth.

Observe the likeness between humanity and cancer infected cells of a living body. They both aim to the destruction of their own existence: one by destroying the earth, the other the body they dwell in.

Humanity is the cancer of the universe. Nature will eventually deal with humanity.