General/Off-topic |
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For the Women!
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| 1. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 10:14 pm |
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Women have strengths that amaze men.
They bear hardships and they carry burdens,
but they hold happiness, love and joy.
They smile when they want to scream.
They sing when they want to cry.
They cry when they are happy
and laugh when they are nervous.
They fight for what they believe in.
They stand up to injustice.
They don't take 'no' for an answer
when they believe there is a better solution.
They go without so their family can have.
They go to the doctor with a frightened friend.
They love unconditionally.
They cry when their children excel
and cheer when their friends get awards.
They are happy when they hear about
a birth or a wedding.
Their hearts break when a friend dies.
They grieve at the loss of a family member,
yet they are strong when they
think there is no strength left.
They know that a hug and a kiss
can heal a broken heart.
Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you
to show how much they care about you.
The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning.
They bring joy, hope and love.
They have the compassion and ideas.
They give moral support to their
family and friends.
Women have vital things to say
and everything to give.
HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE FLAW IN WOMEN,
IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.
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| 2. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:01 pm |
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Quoting egyptian_tomb:
HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE FLAW IN WOMEN,
IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH. |
+10000000!!!
And I would add that they try to behave like men to be equal instead of pointing out problems with men's behavior.
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| 3. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:02 pm |
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disagree with every single sentence! 
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| 4. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:03 pm |
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wow, cato, we posted at the same time! 
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| 5. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:32 pm |
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+1
Btw,catwoman
Who ever said we want to be equal with men ?! 
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| 6. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:35 pm |
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Quoting CANLI:
+1
Btw,catwoman
Who ever said we want to be equal with men ?! |
Not sure what you mean...? Equal in the opinion of the society, so that the patriarchy doesn't discriminate against us. They don't know that we have to ABOLISH patriarchy, not become like men!
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| 7. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:43 pm |
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Well,what i mean,if every woman knows exactly what she is capable of,and that she really can stand alone not depending on anyone.
So we wouldnt hear any voices asking for equality,because the fact that, we can have more than that by who we are and what we can do.
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| 8. |
21 Aug 2007 Tue 11:53 pm |
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Women have strengths that amaze men.
so what? 
They bear hardships and they carry burdens,
but they hold happiness, love and joy.
we all men and women bear/carry our hardships!
They smile when they want to scream.
They sing when they want to cry.
they must be angels, havent met them!
They cry when they are happy
and laugh when they are nervous.
 me too, readin this
They fight for what they believe in.
They stand up to injustice.
unfortunately a few of them, the rest are the stupid and naive walking walls
They don't take 'no' for an answer
when they believe there is a better solution.
then they are called stubborn idiots
They go without so their family can have.
a coded mind
They go to the doctor with a frightened friend.
They love unconditionally.
which unconditionally wrong!
They cry when their children excel
and cheer when their friends get awards.
They are happy when they hear about
a birth or a wedding.
Their hearts break when a friend dies.
They grieve at the loss of a family member,
yet they are strong when they
think there is no strength left.
They know that a hug and a kiss
can heal a broken heart.
Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you
to show how much they care about you.
The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning.
They bring joy, hope and love.
oh...
They have the compassion and ideas.
They give moral support to their
family and friends.
Women have vital things to say
and everything to give.
a spotless idol to worship :-S
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| 9. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:00 am |
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Quoting CANLI: Well,what i mean,if every woman knows exactly what she is capable of,and that she really can stand alone not depending on anyone.
So we wouldnt hear any voices asking for equality,because the fact that, we can have more than that by who we are and what we can do. |
We don't live in a vacuum and we can't stand alone, we are social beings and we need other people. How we succeed in the society depends on how the society treats us and what the society expects of us. Yes, of course we can always preserve our own dignity and ideas, but as social creatures we will always try to fit in and succeed in our lives by the rules that the society gives us.
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| 10. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:05 am |
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cato,
being honest, take a look at TC, say how many of women think the way you think, and how many of them prefer to fit in rather than being free-minded?
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| 11. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:10 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting CANLI: Well,what i mean,if every woman knows exactly what she is capable of,and that she really can stand alone not depending on anyone.
So we wouldnt hear any voices asking for equality,because the fact that, we can have more than that by who we are and what we can do. |
We don't live in a vacuum and we can't stand alone, we are social beings and we need other people. How we succeed in the society depends on how the society treats us and what the society expects of us. Yes, of course we can always preserve our own dignity and ideas, but as social creatures we will always try to fit in and succeed in our lives by the rules that the society gives us. |
İ dont disagree with you, we are social creatures,all of us,man kind is.
My point is,till now there are still women who think the less of themselves,and think they need the men to survive,and they act and treated from this concept.
By forming our own thoughts,we are forming how society treat us and look at us.
İ meen in 100 or 150 yrs ago,the thought of a woman working was absurd,but now its different.
Man socialize too and dont think the less of himself,we should start from ourselves,and know that we are not less,we are different only,and that is acceptable
After all,we are women and they are men,must be differences.
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| 12. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:15 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: cato,
being honest, take a look at TC, say how many of women think the way you think, and how many of them prefer to fit in rather than being free-minded? |
What do you mean by that? I see many women who are free minded and independent here. It is normal that everybody wants to fit in, it is in our nature to want to be accepted in a group and be part of it. People who stand against the cultural norms are people who already feel accepted and are comfortable with a higher level of aloneness. I don't blame people for trying to fit in by behaving in ways that I personally don't agree with, because I see that with the kind of messages that we are constantly bombarded, it's hard to see a different way.
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| 13. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:18 am |
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Quoting CANLI: İ dont disagree with you, we are social creatures,all of us,man kind is.
My point is,till now there are still women who think the less of themselves,and think they need the men to survive,and they act and treated from this concept.
By forming our own thoughts,we are forming how society treat us and look at us.
İ meen in 100 or 150 yrs ago,the thought of a woman working was absurd,but now its different.
Man socialize too and dont think the less of himself,we should start from ourselves,and know that we are not less,we are different only,and that is acceptable
After all,we are women and they are men,must be differences. |
Ok, I see what you mean - yes, this is absolutely right. We can't expect that things will come to us, we need to start with ourselves, by thinking for ourselves and questioning what we are told. Very true.
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| 14. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:24 am |
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Quoting catwoman: I see many women who are free minded and independent here. |
Quoting catwoman:
It is normal that everybody wants to fit in, it is in our nature to want to be accepted in a group and be part of it. People who stand against the cultural norms are people who already feel accepted and are comfortable with a higher level of aloneness. I don't blame people for trying to fit in by behaving in ways that I personally don't agree with, because I see that with the kind of messages that we are constantly bombarded, it's hard to see a different way. |
whom you blame then? the system?
systems come and go, but its people who are still the same.
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| 15. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:28 am |
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Quoting CANLI:
we should start from ourselves,and know that we are not less, |
its a just tonights statement of yours, you get up in the morning, and everything will be as in old days.
Quoting CANLI:
we are different only,and that is acceptable
After all,we are women and they are men,must be differences. |
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| 16. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:32 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: whom you blame then? the system?
systems come and go, but its people who are still the same. |
Yes, it's the system. That's how it works, some individuals will spark the fire and if the ground is ready, people will follow and change the system. Not everybody though will always be against it, but publicity and education always helps to raise awareness and shape ideas.
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| 17. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:37 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: whom you blame then? the system?
systems come and go, but its people who are still the same. |
Yes, it's the system. That's how it works, some individuals will spark the fire and if the ground is ready, people will follow and change the system. Not everybody though will always be against it, but publicity and education always helps to raise awareness and shape ideas. |
you know what? guess who supports the system (patriarchy)? not men!
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| 18. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:44 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: you know what? guess who supports the system (patriarchy)? not men! |
Not men??? Where do YOU live? C'mon femme, be real - you think it's so easy to challenge everything you've been brought up with? Certainly not for the majority of women and it's normal that it is like that. If you want to contribute, just set a good example and provoke some serious questions in people who are open to them. There will be people who will see this different attitude for the first time and may want to follow your footsteps.
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| 19. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 12:54 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Not men??? Where do YOU live? C'mon femme, be real - you think it's so easy to challenge everything you've been brought up with? Certainly not for the majority of women and it's normal that it is like that. If you want to contribute, just set a good example and provoke some serious questions in people who are open to them. There will be people who will see this different attitude for the first time and may want to follow your footsteps. |
alright, lets first define the system.
saying system do you mean the general norms (behavoir, ethics, traditions, customs, myths, legends, beliefs, old sayings/proverbs)?
if so,
who supports all these things to go on?
dad or mom?
uncle or aunt?
granda or granma?
who?
who insists to keep all the traditions?
who circumcises the girls?
who tells daughters to be obediant to men? dads or moms?
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| 20. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 01:00 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: alright, lets first define the system.
saying system do you mean the general norms (behavoir, ethics, traditions, customs, myths, legends, beliefs, old sayings/proverbs)?
if so,
who supports all these things to go on?
dad or mom?
uncle or aunt?
granda or granma?
who?
who insists to keep all the traditions?
who circumcises the girls?
who tells daughters to be obediant to men? dads or moms? |
And try to convince the dad that's out with friends bullshiting about politics or other utter crap to start taking care of and spending time with his children or cooking and cleaning at home. Why exactly is he NOT there educating his kids about those myths and legends???!
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| 21. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 01:18 am |
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Quoting catwoman: And try to convince the dad that's out with friends bullshiting about politics or other utter crap to start taking care of and spending time with his children or cooking and cleaning at home. Why exactly is he NOT there educating his kids about those myths and legends???! |
yeah? so why dont women convince their men to do so as you say? are they lacking brain? instead they do what? they become holy devoted mothers/sisters/daughters. they willingly take everything on their necks. they quietly become the servants.
and they write praising poems about how wonderful women are! they are heros! so they believe the crap thing naively taking more and more to their duties.
i tell you, women are not wise!
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| 22. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 01:50 am |
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One reason is that not too many men will agree on that. Sure, many women are not wise, but an equal number of men are assholes.
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| 23. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 10:59 am |
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No offence ET, but I have to agree with Femme on this one. Poems like this (usually written by MEN) are condescending and put women on a "pedestal".
Actually not ALL women are nice, not ALL women are good mothers, not ALL women are so selfless. We are HUMAN and there are good humans and bad humans
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| 24. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:12 am |
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i wonder what happened between men and catwoman in her past ...obviously she hates most of men 
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| 25. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 04:22 pm |
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Quoting ciko: i wonder what happened between men and catwoman in her past ...obviously she hates most of men |
You obviously didn't get it. 
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| 26. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 07:03 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: i wonder what happened between men and catwoman in her past ...obviously she hates most of men |
You obviously didn't get it. |
hehe i obviously got it..just a bit bored of this neverending men-women matter. i wonder dont you ever get fed up with talking about the same always!
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| 27. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 07:22 pm |
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Quoting ciko: hehe i obviously got it..just a bit bored of this neverending men-women matter. i wonder dont you ever get fed up with talking about the same always! |
So you didn't get it, fine. Seems to me that it's none of your business if I am fed up or not, although I'm curious why you're talking here if you're bored with this topic? :-S People normally don't post in topics that they're bored of!
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| 28. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 07:27 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: disagree with every single sentence! |
 and i adice you to read the last paragraph again again and again...
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| 29. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 07:36 pm |
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thanks, mrx
that doesnt bother me.
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| 30. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 07:46 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: thanks, mrx
that doesnt bother me. |
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| 31. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 08:13 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: hehe i obviously got it..just a bit bored of this neverending men-women matter. i wonder dont you ever get fed up with talking about the same always! |
So you didn't get it, fine. Seems to me that it's none of your business if I am fed up or not, although I'm curious why you're talking here if you're bored with this topic? :-S People normally don't post in topics that they're bored of! |
well, yes you are right..it is none of my business. and i can talk about whatever i want. it is none of your business. i just dont like that you think you represent women.
i think there are three divisions of women.
in first division ( i think 70 % of women are in this division)..women are seen as second-rate citizen in many countries. and these women work and work, in house, in fields, in factories for half of money that men earn for the same job.and women in this division never have rights to defend themselves...millions of these women die because of AIDS in africa...and most of these women ar beaten by their husbands nearly everyday.
in second division, women work for good money and they have their own freedom. and they are well educated. these women think that they represent modern face of women and also these women always talk about equality and bla bla. all they do is posting in forum sites like this and talking with their dear educated friends about women rights..but indeed they know nothing and do nothing about real women..
in third vision..women work for some charities, they do their best for women in first division.at least they sympathy! they do more than talking. and i admire women in 3 th division
and catwoman..it seems to me you are in second division.sorry if i am wrong..that is why i said i was bored of this topic.
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| 32. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:06 pm |
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Quoting ciko:
in second division..women work for good money and they have their own freedom. and they are well educated. these women think that they represent modern face of women and also these women always talk about equality and bla bla. all they do is posting in forum sites like this and talking with their dear educated friends about women rights..but indeed they know nothing and do nothing about real women... |
hmm... interesting
i'd also thought like you a few years ago until i came to conclusions after hours of talks with women in the first division description of yours.
you're right most of western women do know nothing and do nothing about those women in hardships. why should they? and why are they expected to care about someone's rights?(though here i dont like your definition, you called them real women)(and others arent real?)
but as for the true feminists you're wrong, they do know the situation of women in poor countries, and they do care, they at least try. but their actions are like a drop in the vast ocean. some feminists/charity orgs organize educational courses for girls/women, teach them how to start/run a business lending mini-loans etc.
what want to say is: only them (poor women) can change their situation, nobody from outside will come and make their life better. they themselves should wake up and start improving their life styles. it is them who should want the best for themselves and for their daughters.
no catwoman will be a 'good doer'.
nothing comes easy, nothing comes free, you always pay, there always will be victims when you want a revolution (in a cultural/mental sense).
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| 33. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:09 pm |
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Quoting ciko: well, yes you are right..it is none of my business. and i can talk about whatever i want. it is none of your business. i just dont like that you think you represent women. |
Ciko... so nice that you think you can say whatever you want, but I can't! So weird that you think you can read my mind and know me better then I know myself! Just please, consider that you're probably NOT always right on what you think that I think. According to you I hate men, I had traumatic experiences with men, I "represent" the group of women that work hard but don't have a voice (what doesn't qualify me there is that I talk which I'm not supposed to) and that I don't actually do anything, just talk (I qualify here because I talk, therefore, logically thinking - I don't do anything)! Really, very personal, judgmental theories. I wonder where you are getting all these prejudices from, but they surely offend me. Strangely enough, you've been theorizing about me more then about the ideas I expressed here! :-S
Quoting ciko: i think there are three divisions of women. |
And two classes of men - 1st that 90% of men fall into are mysogynists in one way or another and about 10% who somehow realized what's going on.
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| 34. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:14 pm |
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ciko,
you've changed your visions on divisions?
were 2 now 3?
congratualtions!
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| 35. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:22 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting femme_fatal: disagree with every single sentence! |
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Femme, you obviously don't know that "MrX is always right, you just don't get it"!
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| 36. |
22 Aug 2007 Wed 11:29 pm |
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Quote: Quoting catwoman: again again and again... |
Femme, you obviously don't know that MrX is always right, and you just can't get it! |
again again and again obviously you're right cato.
mrx again again and again is hilariously right!  because he again again and again posted again the same thing 4 times for me, so i could see his point! 
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| 37. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:01 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: ciko,
you've changed your visions on divisions?
were 2 now 3?
congratualtions! |
yes is it so bad to change? it may increase to 25 divisions soon
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| 38. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:03 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting femme_fatal: ciko,
you've changed your visions on divisions?
were 2 now 3?
congratualtions! |
yes is it so bad to change? it may increase to 25 divisions soon |
hey, thats not serious!
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| 39. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:15 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting ciko:
in second division..women work for good money and they have their own freedom. and they are well educated. these women think that they represent modern face of women and also these women always talk about equality and bla bla. all they do is posting in forum sites like this and talking with their dear educated friends about women rights..but indeed they know nothing and do nothing about real women... |
hmm... interesting
i'd also thought like you a few years ago until i came to conclusions after hours of talks with women in the first division description of yours.
you're right most of western women do know nothing and do nothing about those women in hardships. why should they? and why are they expected to care about someone's rights?(though here i dont like your definition, you called them real women)(and others arent real?)
but as for the true feminists you're wrong, they do know the situation of women in poor countries, and they do care, they at least try. but their actions are like a drop in the vast ocean. some feminists/charity orgs organize educational courses for girls/women, teach them how to start/run a business lending mini-loans etc.
what want to say is: only them (poor women) can change their situation, nobody from outside will come and make their life better. they themselves should wake up and start improving their life styles. it is them who should want the best for themselves and for their daughters.
no catwoman will be a 'good doer'.
nothing comes easy, nothing comes free, you always pay, there always will be victims when you want a revolution (in a cultural/mental sense).
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i think there are lots of things other women can do for those poor women..in turkey...they can hold some education courses for women in anatolia.about for example population planning or literacy and some of them do it. but it is not enough..offffff i cant explain..i just really loathe feminist women talk from beautiful big cities like Istanbul but do nothing..i have been in many towns of Turkey and have seen differences between women in anatolia and women in big cities. i saw those poor women need more than some feminist talks.
i am not sexist..on the contrary i think men have been destroyed the world so far. all we did ( men )was killing eachother..i confess we (men) are as wild as animals and i really really want women to have more active positions in social life.
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| 40. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:19 am |
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So what have MEN done for those poor women in Anatolia? Do they just know how to criticize feminists? Or do they actually do something to help?
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| 41. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:21 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: well, yes you are right..it is none of my business. and i can talk about whatever i want. it is none of your business. i just dont like that you think you represent women. |
Ciko... so nice that you think you can say whatever you want, but I can't! So weird that you think you can read my mind and know me better then I know myself! Just please, consider that you're probably NOT always right on what you think that I think. According to you I hate men, I had traumatic experiences with men, I "represent" the group of women that work hard but don't have a voice (what doesn't qualify me there is that I talk which I'm not supposed to) and that I don't actually do anything, just talk (I qualify here because I talk, therefore, logically thinking - I don't do anything)! Really, very personal, judgmental theories. I wonder where you are getting all
these prejudices from, but they surely offend me. Strangely enough, you've been theorizing about me more then about the ideas I expressed here! :-S
Quoting ciko: i think there are three divisions of women. |
And two classes of men - 1st that 90% of men fall into are mysogynists in one way or another and about 10% who somehow realized what's going on.
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i am sorry  i didnt want to offend you..please accept my apologise  i just got bored of hearing same things everyday..i should have not attacked you like that...i am sorry again
and please dont think i am not misognyist or sexist..if you read my posts again without prejudgment you will see i am a little feminist too
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| 42. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:24 am |
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Quoting catwoman: So what have MEN done for those poor women in Anatolia? Do they just know how to criticize feminists? Or do they actually do something to help? |
you dont want to understand me!!! i am not defending men here:-S men do nothing as all over the world. offfffff why do you always quote small parts of my posts
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| 43. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:49 am |
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Quoting ciko: you dont want to understand me!!! i am not defending men here:-S men do nothing as all over the world. offfffff why do you always quote small parts of my posts |
On the contrary, I hate dual monologues, where people scream at each other because of terrible misunderstandings and prejudices. I am happy to hear that you are also open for a conversation! And I wanted to point out that the inequalities between men and women are not only women's problem. Not only these gender boxes hurt men as well, but most importantly, any decent man should feel morally obligated to speak up against injustice. Any progress that has been accomplished for women (that second group you mentioned that only recently has gained rights) has been initiated by women, so yes - we do something, but I often hear men complaining about women not doing enough, but they themselves don't do anything, behave like it's not their problem, as if they had nothing to do with this!
There is a great quote in this video, that I'd like to post here:
'If you're a member of the dominant group, if you're a white person, if you're a heterosexual person, if you're a man and you yourself aren't acting out abusively towards members of the subordinated group, but you don't speak up in the face of others' abusive behavior, then your silence is a form of consent and complicity.
In a situation of oppression, those who remain neutral take the side of the oppressor.'
Thank you for your previous post, I appreciate your kind words and understanding.
Stuff like this: Men's Resource Center for Change is what gives me hope in men and is a living or tangible example that stands contrary to views of MrX - that men can't have values and great qualities.
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| 44. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 12:34 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting MrX67: Quoting femme_fatal: disagree with every single sentence! |
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Femme, you obviously don't know that "MrX is always right, you just don't get it"! |
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| 45. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 07:46 pm |
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you're right most of western women do know nothing and do nothing about those women in hardships. why should they? and why are they expected to care about someone's rights?
Femme
I was not jumping into any of this at all until I read this.
Have you lived in a western country as you put it?
You totally generalized here and made yourself look rather ignorant which is a shame because with most of things you say you do make good points for deep thought......but this one totally lost my thoughts of your intelligence.....and if you have lived in that culture I would like to know at which level you lived.
Sure people over here can have "money" or so called "good paying professions" but that is a very small percentage of the population. And primarily in major cities.
Do you even have any idea of what Canadian farmers go through?
Or the many minors that get submerged for endless hours on end never to see the light of day for little money.....these are only two minor examples that a huge percentage live with much less than you can even begin to imagine.
Anyways my point is that you should not be speaking of things that you are not fully informed on and only speculating on.
Another thing for you all to ponder........womens rights had been non existant for all time until basically the 1900's.....hello people!!!!!!!
It takes time to undue a lot of years of wrong doing and I think we have come a very long way in the past 120 years.....give it some more time!
I didnt realize that which was meant to just be light hearted reading and maybe a little lift to a few women who may feel unappreciated.....got all blown up into the whole worlds battle on women's rights!
Ok that is my useless two cents worth!
V
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| 46. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 07:52 pm |
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Quoting egyptian_tomb: I didnt realize that which was meant to just be light hearted reading and maybe a little lift to a few women who may feel unappreciated.....got all blown up into the whole worlds battle on women's rights!
Ok that is my useless two cents worth!
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Well, it gave us a different topic and some discussion, so it was worthwhile
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| 47. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 08:27 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting egyptian_tomb: I didnt realize that which was meant to just be light hearted reading and maybe a little lift to a few women who may feel unappreciated.....got all blown up into the whole worlds battle on women's rights!
Ok that is my useless two cents worth!
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Well, it gave us a different topic and some discussion, so it was worthwhile |
Very well put!!!!!!!
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| 48. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 08:45 pm |
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Quoting egyptian_tomb:
You totally generalized here and made yourself look rather ignorant which is a shame because with most of things you say you do make good points for deep thought......but this one totally lost my thoughts of your intelligence.....and if you have lived in that culture I would like to know at which level you lived. |
i said most of the western women dont know and dont care, i.e. true!
and i wasnt blaming them, if you see my point.
some of them do care which i can see, and i did point it out by mentioning the charity actions.
im not interested in how you see my intelligence
Quoting egyptian_tomb:
Do you even have any idea of what Canadian farmers go through?
Or the many minors that get submerged for endless hours on end never to see the light of day for little money.....these are only two minor examples that a huge percentage live with much less than you can even begin to imagine.
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this has nothing to do with the subject. and i dont feel im obliged to know the life of poor canadian farmers or miners, if you dont mind?
Quoting egyptian_tomb:
Anyways my point is that you should not be speaking of things that you are not fully informed on and only speculating on.
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which particular thing im not fully informed?
Quoting egyptian_tomb:
Another thing for you all to ponder........womens rights had been non existant for all time until basically the 1900's.....hello people!!!!!!!
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hahaha, a gravey_yard, are you telling me that i know nothing of women movement? the history of suffragists? you kiddin me?
oh, maybe you should enlighten me?
Quoting egyptian_tomb:
It takes time to undue a lot of years of wrong doing and I think we have come a very long way in the past 120 years.....give it some more time!
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Quoting egyptian_tomb:
I didnt realize that which was meant to just be light hearted reading and maybe a little lift to a few women who may feel unappreciated.....got all blown up into the whole worlds battle on women's rights!
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your sort of poem thing about a woman 'on pedestal' has so much irritated me! it cheats women's mind, telling them how wonderful, encouraging them to be more serving and submissive!
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| 49. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 08:48 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: your sort of poem thing about a woman 'on pedestal' has so much irritated me! it cheats women's mind, telling them how wonderful, encouraging them to be more serving and submissive! |
+1
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| 50. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 08:56 pm |
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why do people always criticise feminism?
- ciko blames feminists for not doing anything for their women.
- westerners like aenigma or libralady, make fun out of them.
- eastern women like canli think that things should stay like they are i.e. traditionally women are to be submissive.
- egyptian_yard, totally doesnt understand the idea of feminism, comparing them to the canadian farmers.
- mrx, is from another epoch.
so mainly, the majority is against feminists, religious people want feminists vanish away.
men'ish men would willingly hang the feminists.
ignorants and egoists just dont appreciate their contribution to the humankind.
why is that? can you see the world today if there were no women right fighters back in the history? what would the world look like today without them?
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| 51. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:03 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: - westerners like aenigma or libralady, make fun out of them.
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How dare you say such a thing!
When have I EVER made fun of feminism? 
Did you miss my post about this poem???
Quoting AEnigma III: No offence ET, but I have to agree with Femme on this one. Poems like this (usually written by MEN) are condescending and put women on a "pedestal".
Actually not ALL women are nice, not ALL women are good mothers, not ALL women are so selfless. We are HUMAN and there are good humans and bad humans |
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| 52. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:05 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: why do people always criticise feminism?
- ciko blames feminists for not doing anything for their women.
- westerners like aenigma or libralady, make fun out of them.
- eastern women like canli think that things should stay like they are i.e. traditionally women are to be submissive.
- egyptian_yard, totally doesnt understand the idea of feminism, comparing them to the canadian farmers.
- mrx, is from another epoch.
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And Femme Fatal does absolutely NOTHING to promote femimism other than alienate people...
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| 53. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:08 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
How dare you say such a thing!
When have I EVER made fun of feminism?
Did you miss my post about this poem???
Quoting AEnigma III: No offence ET, but I have to agree with Femme on this one. Poems like this (usually written by MEN) are condescending and put women on a "pedestal".
Actually not ALL women are nice, not ALL women are good mothers, not ALL women are so selfless. We are HUMAN and there are good humans and bad humans |
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i actually loved that post of yours! mwuah! appreciate it canim!
but its my general feeling that you dont kinda care for the achievments of those great women who gifted us many things. it was them who cared about themselves and their daughters.
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| 54. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:09 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: And Femme Fatal does absolutely NOTHING to promote femimism other than alienate people... |
finally, made you react!
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| 55. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:13 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: - eastern women like canli think that things should stay like they are i.e. traditionally women are to be submissive.
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Have you actually read Canli's posts? Canli does not think this way AT ALL. She comes from a culturally submissive society and yet thinks like a feminist.
The trouble with you Femme is that you expect everyone to be an instant radical, without taking background and culture into consideration. Canli has achieved far more in feminist thinking in her lifetime than you have, because she has done it DESPITE her culture. Instead of making racist comments about her "bazaar" education, you should encourage any feminist thinking (however "flawed" it may appear to your expert eyes) rather than stamp on them.
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| 56. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:16 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
Have you actually read Canli's posts? Canli does not think this way AT ALL. She comes from a culturally submissive society and yet thinks like a feminist.
The trouble with you Femme is that you expect everyone to be an instant radical, without taking background and culture into consideration. Canli has achieved far more in feminist thinking in her lifetime than you have, because she has done it DESPITE her culture. Instead of making racist comments about her "bazaar" education, you should encourage any feminist thinking (however "flawed" it may appear to your expert eyes) rather than stamp on them. |
not all the time encouragement helps, you possibly dont know the eastern mentality!
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| 57. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:19 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: not all the time encouragement helps, you possibly dont know the eastern mentality! |
As someone who prefers the company of men to women (because women's conversation is too dull for you), I can only assume that your views on the eastern mentality are based on men's views
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| 58. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:25 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: not all the time encouragement helps, you possibly dont know the eastern mentality! |
As someone who prefers the company of men to women (because women's conversation is too dull for you), I can only assume that your views on the eastern mentality are based on men's views
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eastern mentality is mainly based on traditions (mostly serving patriachy). so you could be right.
i read her posts, i didnt like them, due to her very traditional thinking.
yes, radicalism is necessary in many cases, you cant always be calm.
sorry if i expected it from you.
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| 59. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:26 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Have you actually read Canli's posts? Canli does not think this way AT ALL. She comes from a culturally submissive society and yet thinks like a feminist. Canli has achieved far more in feminist thinking in her lifetime than you have, because she has done it DESPITE her culture. |
I completely agree with this...
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| 60. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:28 pm |
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Quoting catwoman:
I completely agree with this... |
oh... no! not again
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| 61. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:30 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: radicalism is necessary in many cases, you cant always be calm.
sorry if i expected it from you. |
Tolerance is important too - instead of giving equating feminism with hate in people's eyes. You are asking people to go from subordination to feminist radicals in one day after thousands of years of culture.
All you do Femme is make women feel its "just too much" for them...
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| 62. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:34 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
Tolerance is important too - instead of giving equating feminism with hate in people's eyes. You are asking people to go from subordination to feminist radicals in one day after thousands of years of culture.
All you do Femme is make women feel its "just too much" for them...
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which actually expression or post of mine makes you hate feminism?
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| 63. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:35 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting AEnigma III:
Tolerance is important too - instead of giving equating feminism with hate in people's eyes. You are asking people to go from subordination to feminist radicals in one day after thousands of years of culture.
All you do Femme is make women feel its "just too much" for them...
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which actually expression or post of mine makes you hate feminism? |
I dont. I am talking about other people who you ridicule here.
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| 64. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:35 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: I dont. I am talking about other people who you ridicule here. |
which?
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| 65. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:37 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: which actually expression or post of mine makes you hate feminism? |
Why are you saying this? She hasn't said anything that suggests that she hates feminism, just the opposite! She's just saying that even though patriarchy is bad, we can't expect women and men to be radical feminists overnight. Your feminist ideas are correct Femme, but you take it too simplistically, without consideration of cultural and emotional complexities that people operate by.
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| 66. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:45 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: which actually expression or post of mine makes you hate feminism? |
Why are you saying this? She hasn't said anything that suggests that she hates feminism, just the opposite! She's just saying that even though patriarchy is bad, we can't expect women and men to be radical feminists overnight. Your feminist ideas are correct Femme, but you take it too simplistically, without consideration of cultural and emotional complexities that people operate by. |
thank you for helping out between me and egnima.
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| 68. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:52 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Tolerance is important too
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this word is definitely overused today!
i know i cant tolerate the 'oily' diplomacy that for the sake of peace i would betray my standpoints.
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| 69. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 09:58 pm |
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You missed my point regarding tolerance. I have mentioned Canli as an example and now also mention Ciko, who seems to have very modern thinking regarding feminism (not to mention criticising his own country!!!) and yet because he DARES to make a favourable comment on the subject of feminism, despite his culture, you still attack because, to your way of thinking, its flawed.
The result? Probably he will not try to continue his thinking on equality and feminism to any degree NOR will he discuss such important issues with his friends.
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| 70. |
23 Aug 2007 Thu 10:00 pm |
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ciao, my dear aspartame see you soon in a next fight, dont forget you gloves
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| 71. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 02:22 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: why do people always criticise feminism?
- ciko blames feminists for not doing anything for their women.
- westerners like aenigma or libralady, make fun out of them.
- eastern women like canli think that things should stay like they are i.e. traditionally women are to be submissive.
- egyptian_yard, totally doesnt understand the idea of feminism, comparing them to the canadian farmers.
- mrx, is from another epoch.
so mainly, the majority is against feminists, religious people want feminists vanish away.
men'ish men would willingly hang the feminists.
ignorants and egoists just dont appreciate their contribution to the humankind.
why is that? can you see the world today if there were no women right fighters back in the history? what would the world look like today without them?
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look FF...for the record i did not compare them only making a point (get all your facts first).....you are always coming across bitter and angry.....i am not sure what you have had to endure in this life to become this way and for that i feel very sorry for you. If everyone is like this nothing constructive will ever get done. You just seem to really enjoy belittling people. I have seen you do it many times. Which only shows your deep insecurities about life and people in general. I do care about people but obviously from your words you do not. My point was simple and you twisted around.
Thanks!
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| 72. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:25 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: You missed my point regarding tolerance. I have mentioned Canli as an example and now also mention Ciko, who seems to have very modern thinking regarding feminism (not to mention criticising his own country!!!) and yet because he DARES to make a favourable comment on the subject of feminism, despite his culture, you still attack because, to your way of thinking, its flawed.
The result? Probably he will not try to continue his thinking on equality and feminism to any degree NOR will he discuss such important issues with his friends. |
Very well put....if you would like people to conform or change or grow. We should encourage positively not negatively or what have we become?
I believe in peoples right to choose how they feel or think. And tolerance is this.....accepting that there are different schools of thought and as long as someone is not trying to force you into their beliefs....why can't they believe what works for them and their life.
Why is it some people think that their way of thinking is the ONLY way? If a woman WANTS, truly wants to do the family and kid thing and emerse herself in this.....why is this WRONG?
Again for the woman that may choose career and working and maybe a single and childless life......that is HER choice and neither is right or wrong. It is PERSONAL choice.
for ALL the "people" on this site!
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| 73. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:38 pm |
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Quoting egyptian_tomb: I believe in peoples right to choose how they feel or think. And tolerance is this.....accepting that there are different schools of thought and as long as someone is not trying to force you into their beliefs....why can't they believe what works for them and their life.
Why is it some people think that their way of thinking is the ONLY way? I a woman WANTS truly wants to do the family and kid thing and emerse herself in this.....why is this WRONG?
Again for the woman that may choose career and working and maybe a single and childless life......that is HER choice and neither is right or wrong. It is PERSONAL choice.
for ALL the "people" on this site! |
Well, I dont think anyone would deny your right to be a mother! The point is that you have the luxury to CHOOSE! Many women dont its also nice to have the luxury to give up work to care for them. I know many couples where, for many reasons,the husband decided to give up work and be the child carer and do the household duties. It works just as well, and again, in such cases they are LUCKY to have the choice.
Be sure, many men who think themselves "feminists" on this site would be shocked at the thought of giving up their jobs to care for the children
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| 74. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:41 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: You missed my point regarding tolerance. I have mentioned Canli as an example and now also mention Ciko, who seems to have very modern thinking regarding feminism (not to mention criticising his own country!!!) and yet because he DARES to make a favourable comment on the subject of feminism, despite his culture, you still attack because, to your way of thinking, its flawed.
The result? Probably he will not try to continue his thinking on equality and feminism to any degree NOR will he discuss such important issues with his friends. |
hehehe no Aenigma i will always contunie my thinking about feminism and eauality..but i will try not to discuss about such things with SO-CALLED open minded women here. some of them just insult other cultures and belittle other oppinions. you know who i am talking about but i will be here and discussing about various things as long as REAL open minded people like you exist in this site!!!
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| 75. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:50 pm |
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Quoting ciko: but i will be here and discussing about various things as long as REAL open minded people like you exist in this site!!! |
I wish I was so "open minded" Just get me started on the subject of animal rights,and you will see
I also can't be open minded about football. Portsmouth are the best, there can be NO DEBATE about it
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| 76. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:55 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
I also can't be open minded about football. Portsmouth are the best, there can be NO DEBATE about it |
Porstmouth? phew you told me once they are the loudest fans of UK ..i watched last week porstmouth- bolton match and coud not hear any noise do you think my TV was broken?
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| 77. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 04:57 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting AEnigma III:
I also can't be open minded about football. Portsmouth are the best, there can be NO DEBATE about it |
Porstmouth? phew you told me once they are the loudest fans of UK ..i watched last week porstmouth- bolton match and coud not hear any noise do you think my TV was broken? |
Its true! I am sure your TV was faulty yes
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| 78. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 05:54 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting AEnigma III: You missed my point regarding tolerance. I have mentioned Canli as an example and now also mention Ciko, who seems to have very modern thinking regarding feminism (not to mention criticising his own country!!!) and yet because he DARES to make a favourable comment on the subject of feminism, despite his culture, you still attack because, to your way of thinking, its flawed.
The result? Probably he will not try to continue his thinking on equality and feminism to any degree NOR will he discuss such important issues with his friends. |
hehehe no Aenigma i will always contunie my thinking about feminism and eauality..but i will try not to discuss about such things with SO-CALLED open minded women here. some of them just insult other cultures and belittle other oppinions. you know who i am talking about but i will be here and discussing about various things as long as REAL open minded people like you exist in this site!!! |
This is a very good thing to hear!
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| 79. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 09:44 pm |
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Quoting egyptian_tomb:
look FF...for the record i did not compare them only making a point (get all your facts first).....you are always coming across bitter and angry.....i am not sure what you have had to endure in this life to become this way and for that i feel very sorry for you. If everyone is like this nothing constructive will ever get done. You just seem to really enjoy belittling people. I have seen you do it many times. Which only shows your deep insecurities about life and people in general. I do care about people but obviously from your words you do not. My point was simple and you twisted around.
Thanks! |
look dear
obviously im not as good as you're. in your post you describe yourself a caring nice person. and describe me as a devil.
you know what? do i give a sh.. to your opinion about me? or do i care about your wonderful personality?
your point was simple as you yourself are (and i dont need to twist around canadian farmers).
and you didnt read carefully my first post or lacked "intelligence" to understand it?
possibly your angelic personality doesnt allow you to see my point (often dressed with sarcasm).
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| 81. |
24 Aug 2007 Fri 11:24 pm |
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Heheheheheheh, good job Canli . No, you didn't miss anything - actually you left at the right time.
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| 82. |
26 Aug 2007 Sun 05:02 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting egyptian_tomb:
look FF...for the record i did not compare them only making a point (get all your facts first).....you are always coming across bitter and angry.....i am not sure what you have had to endure in this life to become this way and for that i feel very sorry for you. If everyone is like this nothing constructive will ever get done. You just seem to really enjoy belittling people. I have seen you do it many times. Which only shows your deep insecurities about life and people in general. I do care about people but obviously from your words you do not. My point was simple and you twisted around.
Thanks! |
look dear
obviously im not as good as you're. in your post you describe yourself a caring nice person. and describe me as a devil.
you know what? do i give a sh.. to your opinion about me? or do i care about your wonderful personality?
your point was simple as you yourself are (and i dont need to twist around canadian farmers).
and you didnt read carefully my first post or lacked "intelligence" to understand it?
possibly your angelic personality doesnt allow you to see my point (often dressed with sarcasm). |
You just can't help yourself can you?
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